Author Topic: If I pre-order, can I opt for a non-steam version when the game is released?  (Read 13747 times)

Joonas Laakso

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Umm.. I kinda depended on your first statement, Joonas Laakso. If you can't honor that, I was effectively tricked into spending 25$. If so, please refund me. My invoice id is #0001231798 . You can contact me via the mail address I registered with.

We've explained our then-current plans as openly as possible, notifying when we don't know for sure, which goes for most things at this stage.

I disagree with any notion of tricking anybody, certainly that hasn't ever been the intent. Why would we do that? We could just shut up about all details. Instead it is our goal to give you as much information as possible and you can then make up your own mind.

Regardless, if you are unhappy with your pre-order, please contact us as support@bugbear.fi and explain the situation and we'll get you sorted.

chuckskyline

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Hmm..

I really see two sides.

As a consumer, I feel "tricked" but on the other side I see their point of view.. which is as I understand it, they didn't know if they were going to be on steam. And now they are, do they really want to spend the time to make two builds? A non steam build, and have to release patches through their website or the steam build where they can release patches through steam or both. To me, (this is a smaller team guys) it would be a hassle to have two builds and have to work on both of them, not to mention patch both of them, create alpha builds for both and so on and so forth.

The benefit would be money would go directly to them vs 30% taken from steam.

I really don't get the anger against steam. I really don't. Nearly all triple A games need steam, aside from like.. the witcher. Heck games like far cry need uplay and steam.

As for hacking the game and pirating game.. come on guys.. really? REALLY? do you realize that is why we have DRM, Steam and Uplay? Honestly, you just gave them a HUGE HUGE reason why not to release the game other then through steam.

They are a small team (60 right?) who is releasing them gave by themselves.. Honestly, we are lucky this is happening, and the game looks so good.

I will say, Bugbear, Joonas, you need to start posting information everywhere.  Coming to hard decisions fast.

Are you going to release a non-steam version?

So you don't have to reverse your decision or it seems like you do.

But honestly, Either way. I bought the game, and will get it where ever it comes out. Because, its about the game.

Not the DRM.


Wurzsag

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I don't envy Bugbear's job. At first people wanted the game on Steam and when it got there people are again unhappy.

And what comes to Steam. Why on earth would all those indie game developers want their game on Steam? Because it's damn good platform to sell games. Talk about developers "begging" Steam is ridiculous. If they don't like Steam they can stay out of there and sell their game any other way they want.
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St. Jimmy

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Well Arma 3 got me in Steam so I'm not so much against Steam anymore. Now I pretty much like Steam but I still prefer without Steam unless I buy some cheap games that don't matter that much. It's much easier for developer to go Steam only because of patching etc.
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neoglow

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Its Steam, not the Ebola Virus. Geeeeeeezzzz.  ???

Steam is probably the best platform ever for Indie dev's and companies like Bugbear looking to gain interest in their games from the masses.

Get with the program, Steam is for the PC, the same as PSN is for Sony and XBL for Microsoft.

Next your be saying you only have dial up internet!?  :o

AlienMind

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I sent them a mail about pre-order cancellation. Hope it turns out well.
Yeah, I'm dumb to believe this would be no STEAM exclusive title. But you know, hope dies last.
And to all who think I'm against this title being on STEAM: You kinda missed my point.

Mopower

I sent them a mail about pre-order cancellation. Hope it turns out well.
Yeah, I'm dumb to believe this would be no STEAM exclusive title. But you know, hope dies last.
Wow... Not getting a game because of... STEAM!? Whose this guy? lol. NCG's popularity will likely result from being advertised on steam, just saying. Btw, got my bro to pre-order the game too! We'll be happy when we get to play the alpha

Andreaz1

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At first people wanted the game on Steam and when it got there people are again unhappy.
Read again. Massive difference between (1) having the game on Steam and (2) saying
We cannot guarantee a non-Steam version right now.

I agree with AlienMind. I'm not that fussy about Steam itself, I just feel like it's an unnecessary and annoying third party to have on my computer which I don't want to bother with. Even signing up for it wouldn't work for me the times I tried to. I guess I'll give it another try solely for this game but if it keeps working against me I'm not sure I'll keep my pre-order. Especially if Bugbear confirms that fighting against that unnecessary and annoying third party that I don't even want is going to be the only way for me to get the game.
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chuckskyline

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I sent them a mail about pre-order cancellation. Hope it turns out well.
Yeah, I'm dumb to believe this would be no STEAM exclusive title. But you know, hope dies last.
And to all who think I'm against this title being on STEAM: You kinda missed my point.

And what is your point?

That they didn't know if they were going to get on steam so not to depend on just on steam because they might not get on steam?

And now that they are, they might not release anywhere else on steam?

So you are mad about that?

Because.. they didn't know?

I'm not sure I get your point.

I can see hating steam, because of the DRM thing, which honestly, people need to get over, because it is here to stay, in one form on the other..

They were not going to depend on steam because they didn't know if they were going to get on steam... and now that they got on steam you are mad a them because they might only put it on steam?

If they didn't get on steam, they were going go somewhere else to sell the game.

Honestly, its your loss. Its going to be a good game.

And for others. All E.A games on PC will need Origin and All ubisoft games require Uplay.

Blizzard games require an online account.

So.. uh.. what games are you going to play? Strictly indy games that you can find on GoG?

« Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 12:32:45 AM by chuckskyline »

Purple44

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http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,838.msg6942.html#msg6942
Joonas Laakso (Global Moderator), August 31st:
"Don't depend on Steam. We want to be able to sell the game directly and through other distributors, as well (Good Old Games and the like)."

http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,1115.msg10492.html#msg10492
Same guy, September 30st:
"We cannot guarantee a non-Steam version right now."

Umm.. I kinda depended on your first statement, Joonas Laakso. If you can't honor that, I was effectively tricked into spending 25$. If so, please refund me. My invoice id is #0001231798 . You can contact me via the mail address I registered with.


I wonder if there some confusion going on here. Bugbear will sell the NCG through others channels beside Steam. So you will not have to buy NCG from Steam. Right now you can buy directly from Bugbear. :) But we are talking about a PC game that will get pirated on release day.

Bugbear need some protection ( DRM ) and Steam has become the most acceptable DRM for PC players ( Steam activation keys ). Sure beat Microsoft's Games for Window LIVE or Ubisoft always connected to internet, be it offline or online gaming.

Bugbear may release a DRM free NCG without a Steam activation key. But I would not expect Bugbear do it on release day, maybe 6 months later.

Bugbear Devs have put a lot time and money into NCG, they deserve to make their investment back.

All I ask of Devs, release a demo so players can test your game on their computer. Talking about you Codemasters and GRID 2 and some PC players that got screwed cause GIRD 2 not working on their PC and there was no demo.
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Neiro

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As for hacking the game and pirating game.. come on guys.. really? REALLY? do you realize that is why we have DRM, Steam and Uplay?

I don't quite think I can agree on this. Sure drm is a result of piracy to some extend, but it's a wrong choice by the publishers, not the fault of the consumer.
If it weren't for piracy I honestly think computer games would be a niche marked. I for one would probably have never spent money on games if my parents didn't aquire many of the C64 games they had in the 80s. Hell even flatout I'd probably not have heard of it someone hadn't brought a cracked version to a lan party once, and I think the only reason so many of my friends have command and conquer - generals on origin is because they used to play the cracked version in the past. Sure there are those who don't ever buy games, but I believe many of them would simply not buy them even if piracy wasn't an option - so they're not lost potential costumers although they obviously are still pirates. And to be honest, I think the only reason I don't pirate these days is that steam made it easy not to. Most games 'just work' in steam which wasn't always the case with retail cd's or pirated software - and I'm lazy. So it appeals to me.

If I look at my account I've got just shy of 800 titles on steam, got all the blizzard things except a few expansion packs and have a library of titles I've paid for on gog despite having the cd's of old somewhere in a closet still. None of this would've happened if piracy hadn't existed. My parents had probably never even bought the amiga or later their first pc if it hadn't been for the pirated golf, bubble bobble and other stuff from the commedore 64 back then.

In short - piracy is a very good marketing tool and pretty much saves the day for any games company. If it wasn't for piracy, we'd all still play outrun in the arcade and the voodoo card would never have existed.

Mopower

As for hacking the game and pirating game.. come on guys.. really? REALLY? do you realize that is why we have DRM, Steam and Uplay?
In short - piracy is a very good marketing tool and pretty much saves the day for any games company. If it wasn't for piracy, we'd all still play outrun in the arcade and the voodoo card would never have existed.
lol, that's like such an over the top exaggeration. Honestly, unless there is a multiplayer key, no one who pirates the game is going to plan on buying the retail version, and even with it, they'll probably just play single player.

Of course this is my opinion, because I think about this, and I say to myself, "yeah if I liked a game that I happened to get a cracked version of, I'll pay for the retail version." Then I think a little bit and say "Well hold on, $50 for something that I've already played all the way through... Mehhh, probably not"

Neiro

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Despite lans playing cod4 and cs in a cracked version, most,of the lan goers in our group ended ip buying the games. Hell even I bought cs source despite not having played cs since 1.3 (prior to source).
sure not everybody is like that, but many are.

Joonas Laakso

  • Posts: 263
Yeah, I'm dumb to believe this would be no STEAM exclusive title.

One more time: we do not know yet. That is not the same as being Steam exclusive or anything else, really, it only means that we just don't know. It's being figured out.

If being available outside of Steam is very important to you, please wait with your pre-order until we can say for sure.

Joonas Laakso

  • Posts: 263
They are a small team (60 right?) who is releasing them gave by themselves..

30 guys, and you've covered just about all the sides to it, except that Steam also gives us very good tools to handle user generated content and online functionality. And yes, having just one build to keep updated would be ideal, but that's not the whole of it. We are looking at all the arguments.