Author Topic: Feedback on existing tracks - collective thread  (Read 1788 times)

vooj-tae

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  • Posts: 26
Okay, first of all, if this kind of topic exists here somewhere already, I am sorry and feel free to move this post there. I tried to find it but I couldn't.

What I want is a place, where people can post feedback on existing tracks, whether it is bugs, track design, graphics and effects or anything else related to the tracks. I hope BB is interested in this kind of topic, where you can put your feedback, so we can all together make these tracks (and all those that still are to come :) ) as enjoyable as possible.
My idea is that anyone can post his feedback on any track/its aspects to this single dedicated thread, where all the posts should have some consistent form, so it is easy for the community to keep track of what has already been suggested and also for BB to have all the feedback in one place, 'cause I know it is otherwise very time consuming for you guys to go through all the different topics and suggestions. It would also be nice if this thread was pinned to the top of this section, but it is not necesarry.

Keep up the good work guys! How comes that Finland is number one when it comes to motorsport? All the rally legends, F1 champions and great racing games from your beautiful country! Cheers from Czech Republic,

Vojta
-- still looking for suitable quote :) --

vooj-tae

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  • Posts: 26
For better grip of what I meant, here is first suggestion from me, that I noticed yesterday.

Tarmac
graphics/effects
importance: minor issue

The concrete pillars as they are now, are completely destroyable, and it just doesn't give a good impression to me. Concrete, like the one used on other tracks, should have the iron skeleton inside, and for case of bridge pillars it would apply even more. I think it would look much better, if the concrete on the pillar, after some serious crash with a car (such as I had yesterday :D ), fell off, leaving just the iron skeleton with some concrete remnants to it. Like it is now, it just feels absurd to me...
-- still looking for suitable quote :) --

Holybeer

  • Posts: 174
Tarmac / Gravel roads should be more wider. Feels like cars are too big to drive in.

Fisu

  • Posts: 232
Tarmac / Gravel roads should be more wider. Feels like cars are too big to drive in.
Mostly you can race 4 cars side by side. My opinion is that players are played too much arcade games.
Historic Rally Trophy Finland 2014 winner (co-driver)

BrianUK

Tarmac / Gravel roads should be more wider. Feels like cars are too big to drive in.

I think that's more down to the hideous lack of spacial awareness that the vast majority of players have.

I'll make a proper post which is OT once I have time.

Mopower

I feel the roads are plenty wide.

I may sound like a broken record on this next piece, but

Derby track designs:
For one, the stadium is just a bit too large. And I could deal with the ramps in the middle (though they're not very realistic), but the quarter pipe ramps going up the side really displease me. They're just a bit too unrealistic for my tastes.

2, again, the mudpit is a bit too large, but I don't mind that it's a bowl. It's kind of fun to drive on actually, but the outer part leaves a little too much room for sandbaggers to run on.
That's about all I have for derby tracks. The small stadium is nice sized, and I'm still waiting on the mud version of it.

Cheers, Mo

kruleworld

  • Posts: 290
Sandpit A (the unfinished one) is definitely the most fun track. mostly because the AI drive off over the piles of sand and go sailing through the air.
He's dusted, busted and disgusted, but he's ok.
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Daystar

  • Posts: 2638
Sandpit A (the unfinished one) is definitely the most fun track. mostly because the AI drive off over the piles of sand and go sailing through the air.

Yeah Sandpit1 is also my fave at the moment! and also when racing in the other direction, they tend to crash often in the beginning of a little forest by some barriers :P

BrianUK

Right, I have time. I'm about to put some music on while I rail off a HUGE post where even the tl;dr version is a 3 book novel. Hopefully all of what I post is actually readable, and offers a decent insight of the tracks from the eyes of a player. I'm more looking at the actual track rather than props, unless they pose an obvious issue for me.

Tarmac:

I want to like this track, I really do. It generally has a decent flow to it, but there are a couple of turns which I feel induce a bit of luck into the equation where getting the right line is concerned, and I feel that getting that great laptime should be more down to driver skill than down to luck. The most obvious turn is the tight left hander after the long left hand run from the hairpin, as it's very hard to consistently get the car in the right place for the turn. I think it would run better if the run down from the hairpin had a small straight section prior to the turn in. Chances are it's me being inept, but I do feel that I am most likely to get an unpredictable kick from the rear end as I enter the turn.

I also feel that the kerbs are too high on a couple of turns, most notably the turn mentioned above, and the first turn on the forward variant. It's like it has purely been made to flip the cars when they are running stiffer suspension setups, but all it does is prevent drivers from using a part of the track because it is at such a different height compared to the rest of the turn. It also affects the flow of the track because you have to slow down more, take a tighter turn, and doesn't particularly flow well into the gentle right under the bridge, I feel it all becomes a bit of a steering lock war until you get out of the bridge, which also makes it very hard to judge consistently, although this may be me being inept again. Still, even if this was a disused race track, I think the kerbs would be nearer the road level as they would've been under use by cars and other vehicles up until the time of its abandonment. Even if that wasn't the case, kerbs on most race tracks I have seen (mainly F1 tracks on ye olde telly) and those I have driven on in real life (Silverstone International Circuit and a track of which I don't know the name) have been banked towards the inside of the turn, rather than sausages cut in half, then flopped onto the ground.

Things I love are the bumps on the racing surface, with the car moving up and down, showing me how low tech my suspension is. It also allows me to use the bumps to aid with turn in on a couple of turns as I can get the front end pressed into the floor, or where the car lifts I can get a gear change in without losing too much pace. It generally flows well, especially the fast left hander, which I griped about, when run in reverse it allows for great positional battles with other cars as you try and steal the inside of the hairpin to make that pass stick or defend your position. The track generally flows better in reverse. The last turn (first in reverse) allows you to just lift off before entry, although the overly high kerb does punish you for trying to get in early, and the next turn has a good run up to it. The last sector (first sector in forward) flows far better, with the drop onto the finishing straight.

Overall a good track, better in reverse, but I feel that the kerbs on a couple of turns are just too high and a small error on turn in sends you off the track or you end up losing a lot of pace.

Gravel:

Always liked this track, although I still have a couple of minor issues with it. Namely the bloody bits at the edge of the track. If you even consider putting half a wheel onto the edge of the track you are sent into a spin, or end up in a barely controllable mess as the car goes from being in perfect shape, to being totally out of shape. The bumpy edges, especially down the home straight and the final jump, could do with either being toned down or moved outwards a little. If you get one wheel on it, you just get thrown off with almost no chance of being able to save yourself at times and I feel that, again, injects luck into an equation where it's not needed. It's like you've hit a large rock. The last turn is the worst culprit for this as it lifts the front and there is very little you can do to save the front end from the wall. Even if you get through the apex, if you try to use all the road you just end up hitting the bumpy mass on the right hand side of the home straight. I get that this serves to punish those who try to push the track limits for lap time *whistles*, but I feel it's a little too much. The bumpiness already kills pace, why does it need to make your car spear off in a direction not of your choosing as well?

The fences, they have too much mass still. In my mind, if I throw nearly 2 tonnes of car at a wooden fence it'll break pretty quickly without too much resistance. If I hit said fence at 15mph, then I expect it to break with a little resistance, but it actually feels tougher than that. Coupled with that, it seems to affect the rear of car in a strangely adverse way where it kicks out and can result in a spin which is just adding insult to injury if you've already speared off the track due to contact or the bumpy goodness at the track edges. Again, it may just be me being inept.

The flow is a massive plus for this track. You can either brake lightly or lift off and use friction to scrub off speed and still retain speed and pace, even the second turn with the incline on the apex (which just happens to be my favourite corner due to the difficulty of getting a good exit). Then it all slows down for the final hairpin, before a high speed run through the last turn and back down to the first turn. It's all over in 40 seconds, but I feel like I'm always moving. No unnecessary stop-starting, it doesn't randomly alternate between slow/fast, it just flows. The low speed hairpin allows for battles to run from the exit of that turn, all the way back to it again. It encourages close racing and there is room for everyone, in some MP races we have gone three wide through some turns.

Great track, if a little short, wouldn't mind a 90 second variant that ran as nicely as this track.

Sandpit:

This track always felt like a more complete package than Gravel and Tarmac. Plenty of run off areas where they are needed i.e turn 2 and the final turn. The track flows well, mostly medium speed turns where your entry and exit can make or break your lap. I actually don't really have any complaints about this track, apart from the minor annoyance of heavy plant sitting on the track. For me, I feel props like that should be off the main racetrack and more sitting on the edges, waiting for that unlucky soul to take liberties with the high speed run up the hill over tarmac to end up in a diggers bucket. I also don't quite get the reason for the strange guttering all the way up that turn, you get two wheels on it and you end up in a random mess with regards to how the car is reacting. You can get sucked into the bumpy section further in which just feels a bit odd to me. If it was a ditch, which I could actually see, I could understand it but the way it is now it just seems more of a light dip in the track. Of course, maybe me being inept again (probably).

The final S-bend which consists of the long left up the hill over tarmac, into the shallow right down the hill, has proven a very difficult turn to master. It's like the corkscrew-lite version of the corkscrew of Laguna Seca. Very satisfying to finally get that right, but I don't think it's a turn I'll ever master. Although, you do get very unpredictable bounces over the tarmac. I get that predictable handling isn't something you really want, but if you have at least a little idea as to how the car will react as it finds momentary grip while bottoming out then I think most people would get along with this turn much better.

The home straight has a strange bit at the end where you lose acceleration which does kind of lock off part of the road and make it one-car-wide if you want to maintain some pace into the first turn, but really, it's a minor issue. The long hairpin onto tarmac, then the right hander back to dirt was a stroke of genius. Tough to get right, but once you get it down you can carry a lot of speed into and out of the section. The double drop at the end of the tarmac works rather well.

Was my favourite track of all until I met the next one.

Sandpit 1

This. This is a track. High speed runs punctuated by punishing high speed turns which will kill you if you dare push the limits. Incredible racing can be had on all variants, the track is easily wide enough to accommodate three cars throughout most of the lap. Getting the lines right are rewarded with great runs through the high speed sections, getting them wrong is punished with you being sent into a multi-roll crash where your car ends up a crumpled heap at the bottom of the hill. The little lips made of dirt mounds on the insides of some turns really force you to be careful with where you put the car without throwing you off the track or making you needlessly lose time.

Route 1, with the tightest turn of all the tracks, is tougher with regards to getting the lap as a whole together in one neat, speedy package. Take too little speed from the hairpin and the entire high speed section is compromised meaning you have to push the left turn up the hill at the end without ending up flipping the car off the hills. The exit of the next high speed turn down to the final two turns can make or break a lap where the sudden depression of the track gives you spades of grip which can take you totally unaware or allow you to throw the car through the turns with fantastic speed, sometimes pushing 100mph. The reverse variant is much the same, with a poor run from the hairpin heavily affecting the lap.

Route 2 is a pure high speed rush, with a speedy flow, very little braking apart from the hairpin after the jump and the S bend after the drop down the hill and much use of full throttle throughout the rest of the track.

Being unfinished tracks (to us) I won't criticise too harshly, but again, there is random heavy plant on the track which needlessly reduces the space people have to use on the track and artificially slows lap times. The random bumps that you can't see, I have put those down to the unfinished nature of the track, and will reserve judgement on those until I get to race on the finished version on the track.

Last Words

I will say that I do enjoy racing every track, I have put too many laps into each and every one of them and their variants. The fact I keep coming back for more is, for me, testament to how good they are even when they aren't finished. Bugbear have done a fantastic job of crafting wonderful, varied tracks for us to crash and race around and have done them justice by giving us some great cars and a decent handling model to race around them with. I look forward to more tracks like these, a great mix of low speed and high speed sections which all run into each other without feeling like I'm being thrown into a 15mph turn from a 120mph straight. So, for that, I raise a glass to all the guys (and girls?) at Bugbear who are working endlessly to bring us a fantastic spiritual sequel to Flatout 1.

Obviously there is still work to be done and things are likely to change, but as things stand those are my thoughts on them.

If you read this line without skipping, then I did warn you it was going to be long ;)

LUNITIC_WILL

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i like all current tracks. i do want a track that has burms so that it can have even more high speed
"one shall stand, one shall fall" Optimus Prime 1984-present

vooj-tae

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  • Posts: 26
Tarmac:
I also feel that the kerbs are too high on a couple of turns, most notably the turn mentioned above, and the first turn on the forward variant. It's like it has purely been made to flip the cars when they are running stiffer suspension setups, but all it does is prevent drivers from using a part of the track because it is at such a different height compared to the rest of the turn. It also affects the flow of the track because you have to slow down more, take a tighter turn, and doesn't particularly flow well into the gentle right under the bridge, I feel it all becomes a bit of a steering lock war until you get out of the bridge, which also makes it very hard to judge consistently, although this may be me being inept again. Still, even if this was a disused race track, I think the kerbs would be nearer the road level as they would've been under use by cars and other vehicles up until the time of its abandonment. Even if that wasn't the case, kerbs on most race tracks I have seen (mainly F1 tracks on ye olde telly) and those I have driven on in real life (Silverstone International Circuit and a track of which I don't know the name) have been banked towards the inside of the turn, rather than sausages cut in half, then flopped onto the ground.

This I second. I learned very fast to avoid these and it's a shame, because for me the Tarmac is the "Racing" track, and in racing going over the kerbs is essential to get the best time and the best feel from it at the same time :)
-- still looking for suitable quote :) --

KingOfTheCakes

  • Posts: 698
I think I'm pleased with the derby arenas the most, because there's variety in size and style.

The tracks are very good too, but I feel that the new Sandpit tracks could do with a few more barriers or banks around some corners, so that we actually have to take the corners properly rather than cutting through or around them. I can't stand it when players gain advantage by not taking sticking to the track, even in a game like this one.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 05:37:11 PM by KingOfTheCakes »
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