Author Topic: Sandpit under construction  (Read 5298 times)

presuming ed

  • Posts: 240
This may be asking for the obvious but please could some objects and terrains be included in the final version of this track that would discourage all the straight lining that's going on in there?

As a casual gamer I want to try to make the best of the game and that includes negotiating and attempting every corner, kink and turn on every track. On this track I'm finding myself 7 seconds adrift in races because there are other racing lines available that involve exceeding what I'd call track limits.

I'm not saying I'm the best or anything - I'm sure I'd still be 2 seconds adrift if everyone was staying on track, but 2 seconds gives me more of a chance online than 7 seconds does.

BrianUK

This may be asking for the obvious but please could some objects and terrains be included in the final version of this track that would discourage all the straight lining that's going on in there?

As a casual gamer I want to try to make the best of the game and that includes negotiating and attempting every corner, kink and turn on every track. On this track I'm finding myself 7 seconds adrift in races because there are other racing lines available that involve exceeding what I'd call track limits.

I'm not saying I'm the best or anything - I'm sure I'd still be 2 seconds adrift if everyone was staying on track, but 2 seconds gives me more of a chance online than 7 seconds does.

Let's be honest here, it's not as if the somewhat questionable lines can be used by no-one but the best drivers. It's available to everyone, and we aren't exactly cutting out huge swathes of the track. To stay competitive, I had to adapt and use the lines my competitors are using, and while there is nothing preventing this, that's what will be used. F1 drivers take the same mentality, they will push the track limits as far as they can to get the best possible laptime.

As it stands, these are the lines that the fastest drivers are using, and they come with a sizable risk/reward component. Any race online and people take the hairpin anti-clockwise because it is faster. My exit over the mound out wide isn't actually my normal line, but I chose it because after slamming into the floor getting off of it, you end up losing some pace, so it's pretty much like for like with coming out of the turn on the road.

As a casual gamer, you are saying that you want the lines the best drivers use to be restricted so you can be competitive even though you have the same opportunities to use them yourself. You do realise that even when the track is finished, your own lines may be compromised, then what will you attribute to your being off the pace?

While the tracks remain unfinished, these are the lines that are being taken and I look forward to the day these tracks are finished and then I'll adjust my lines accordingly.

presuming ed

  • Posts: 240
Sorry Brian - I'm not trying to accuse anybody of anything and I deliberately moved away from the lap time thread so as not to take it off topic. I'm not asking for lines to be restricted so that I can be competitive - you're right in your assertion that I could use those lines if I wished. Or maybe I couldn't - maybe I wouldn't be able to keep control of the car. However I feel my enjoyment of racing on the track is increased by driving on the track rather than the scenery.

Also if I was a track designer I'd hope that the people who competed on the track took the corners in the spirit I intended them. I don't think anyone who designs a curve would enjoy seeing it straight lined.

I've also tried to be honest and not blame anything other than my ability for why I'm not as fast as others.

All I'm asking is that if we race on a track, we race on that track, not the scenery.

As I said in another thread, this game has the potential for universal appeal but for it to be truly harmonious some parties might have to compromise. Some may have to be open to measures being put in place that encourage obeying track limits and some may have to be open to measures that reduce the opportunity of smashing up all other cars, especially on walled tracks, using the benefit of the reset system.

You've complained in another thread about some drivers who prefer oval racing having an 'I'll race the way I want and to hell with the rest of you' attitude but you seem to be displaying something similar here.

BrianUK

I'm merely using all available track space in which to reduce the loss of speed. I've just come off a server running Route 1 where all and sundry used the exact same lines I do. If I am to stay competitive with the rest of the field, I have to be uncompromising about my lines through turns.

One guy decided he was going to cut the whole of turn 1 out and cut straight the hairpin, then run 3 miles wide on the exit so he didn't have to slow down. That, in my books, is totally unacceptable because he was literally cutting off a part of the track.

We are actually using the assumed run-off areas on the exit of turns, such as is present on the finished sandpit tracks. So I think we'll have to take this as a literal grey area. While there is nothing stopping players from using the empty areas at the exit of a turn, then it will be treated as run-off and allowable.

Just be aware, though, that I do impose limits upon myself. The 57.61 lap I posted was actually the second lap of that time I did in those 10 laps, however I took what I deemed to be too much run off on turn 1 so I threw that lap away because I felt it was too much.

I'm not seeing this as a 'well, there is nothing stopping me so I'm going to do it' scenario, I'm seeing it as while there are no defined run-off areas, I will merely make my own which just happens to be what the majority of other racers are doing. If I was in a tournament and the rule was to keep it on the track, then I would honour that, but when you're in a free-for-all race, you've got to adapt and change your driving.

You're right about loss of control, some of it is very bumpy and if you don't get it right you end up off the track but if you get it right everything flows beautifully. It's a very fun track to drive and I hope that run-off areas are put in, because the high speed run is great, but it would be compromised greatly if you had to drop speed off to avoid an obstacle placed at the bottom of the hill.

This is the only track in which the run-offs are currently undefined.

Obviously, I get your concerns and they are ones shared by myself, but until the track is done and everything is clear to see, I think we are going to have to just get on with it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 02:54:31 PM by BrianUK »

presuming ed

  • Posts: 240
I think we're probably not coming from entirely opposite viewpoints here and once the tracks are finished I'm not going to be on here whinging about lines. Ultimately the people who implement the tracks will be aware of the lines that can be taken and if they choose not to put any ditches or obstacles in the way then I either do that too and drop a few seconds a lap, or don't do it and drop a few more seconds a lap.

I guess I'm just a bit of a purist. I'm not a fan of drift and the biggest hit for me (apart from revenge slams) is hitting the apex of a corner at a good pace. It's fairly obvious that there's still some work to be done on this track as terrain outside the track limits resembles a bedding quilt at the moment so just thought I'd put a request in.

I'm honestly not trying to pick you out Brian - that's another reason why I came away from the lap times thread to ask this. I totally accept that in order to compete you need to do it, and you seem the type anyway who would be one of the first to adjust and be quick if racing lines needed to change.

Would it not be just as satisfying to you to be quickest on a track where the limits are more rigidly enforced, and everyone else was in the same boat?

BrianUK

The track limits are more rigidly enforced on the other tracks, and I think that the main reason for that is simply because they are finished tracks, with all the clutter and stuff that goes with it. There is a video of my lap on Gravel and I only posted that because I was proud that I was able to get a quick lap on it.

Yeah, the Sandpit laps feel a bit empty to me because I have to drive in a more unorthodox way than I do on the other tracks, but once everything on Sandpit is finished up it'll become a more meaningful track with regards to lap times. I just don't want to see the flow compromised in an effort to curb run-off areas and lap times. I even thought to myself that a direction should really be made clear for the hairpin because in its current state it's more a frustration than anything else. If you have to agree to which route you'll take around a corner to stop skewing results, then I think it needs to be looked at.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were singling me out, it just so happens that I've done more laps of that track than I'd like to admit so I felt I could offer up a decent explanation with regards to the current lines being used.

nmaddock

  • Posts: 23
presuming ed - stick to the track and when the track is updated you will have an advantage over those taking 'current' short-cuts. They will have to learn the new best route were-as you will have mastered it!
Use this development time as a training program - and if you do end up in a race against me you will probably see me sticking to the track too - unless it all goes wrong (which it often does!!)
I also don't play enough to know which objects are solid and which are 'soft' so I end up unneccesarily braking and/or turning/skidding/flipping to try and avoid something that isn't actually there!

Usmovers_02

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My favorite thing in the world is to beat the corner cutters in Forza while driving the intended race line :P Also, nmaddock is right, practice the proper race line now and when the track is complete and the shortcuts likely removed you'll know the track better than the corner cutters :P

LUNITIC_WILL

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My favorite thing in the world is to beat the corner cutters in Forza while driving the intended race line :P Also, nmaddock is right, practice the proper race line now and when the track is complete and the shortcuts likely removed you'll know the track better than the corner cutters :P
am i considered a corner cutter if i have my inner most front wheel touching the grass?
"one shall stand, one shall fall" Optimus Prime 1984-present

Usmovers_02

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I'm of the mind that so long as one wheel maintains contact with the intended racing surface your fine (legit short cuts being an obvious exception). I don't let full blown corner cutters ruin my day though.

Lari Fari

  • Posts: 1747
I think theres a HUUUUUGE difference between a little risky corner cutting here and there and taking the shortcuts some people use in sandpit one.

Especially the first and last two turns can be completely ignored with a little offroad "adventure". And that is not OK. Most hosts forbid it and thats great!

The seconds brian is faster than most of us all is not due to taking what I would call illegitimate shortcuts. Thats just because he drives like a machine :D
Gaming Since 1989

I always try to use a good race line, but I still want every track to have larger than normal drift/off track areas. Reason being, AVOIDANCE. This is Wreckfest, not a formula one race. If there would be controls to keep people strictly on the track by way of rough/bumpy areas, objects, and parked vehicles, then racing would be much more difficult because of pitting.

As I'm racing I always try to keep on track with a good race line, but then I'll see a couple of people ahead of me fighting or clowning around. The only way to avoid them is to take wide turns or go off track for a bit to get around them, then I return to my race line. In Sandpit 2, there are places in the track that if you slightly go off track, you'll hit a bump that will send your car rolling end over end. Imagine everyone getting hit or pitted, going slightly off track then hitting a bump and rolling or colliding with an obstacle. Do you think resetting is bad now, wait and see what happens if those measures are put in place.

The best solution that I can think of is simply make the tracks much wider so people can have more options in what race line they choose to take.

presuming ed

  • Posts: 240
As I'm racing I always try to keep on track with a good race line, but then I'll see a couple of people ahead of me fighting or clowning around. The only way to avoid them is to take wide turns or go off track for a bit to get around them, then I return to my race line.

But this is WreckFest! In the same situation I plough into them both and hope I get heavy hitter or mad dog! The racing is fun in this game but it's not all the game. You have to expect some contact.

I hear Assetto Corsa is good if you're looking for proper racing.

Perhaps you're not understanding me. I'm all for "banger" racing. Trading paint is fine, pitting someone at the right time is fine as well, but to me it is still a race which means I also want to be the first one to cross the finish line and "win" the race, otherwise it's a derby. Pitting or knocking someone out of the way is fun, but every time you do you also lose time. You have to pick the right time and place to do it and still maintain speed and control to win the race.

If 2 people are fighting it out in front of me, chances are they are slow to stopped on the track. If I also run into them I will be greatly slowed or stopped and then whoever was behind me will pass us all. Also consider that every time you contact someone you gain additional damage which will increase the chances of "flaming out" and sitting dead on the track.

People that spend all their time pitting or ramming someone will seldom if ever win any race. You'll either be DNF or finish last. If that's your play style, fine. I pit when someone tries to pit me, slam someone when the timing is right, but my whole purpose is to get them out of my way so I can win. If that means going off track to get around or through a bunch of cars in a huddle, then that's what I do. Some times several cars and burning wrecks will completely clog a track and there's no way around them except to go off track. If all my damage indicators are red or black then one more hit would take me out, in which case certainly I'll go around even if it means going way off track.

presuming ed

  • Posts: 240
I guess the game needs all type of racer but I must admit I've lost all belief and trust in my fellow racer and have a 'get them before they get me' approach now.

My expectations are different - I have little gaming time so don't have the opportunity to practice, run hot laps etc. but I'm picking up a bit of speed these days. So my aim is always to get past the car in front of me. This keeps my expectations in check as it's extremely rare that there are no cars in front of me in a race, and usually there are a lot of cars in front of me, especially after the first corner.

As on most tracks I'm unlikely to see my name in lights with regard to race wins or fastest laps, my attention then drifts to heavy hitter and mad dog. There is skill involved in this too of course - to ration out all contact and damage so that I'm still running at the end - and I do want to beat people - smashing around is not completely at the expense of a finishing place - I don't want to come in last so I'm not going to be running around backwards or hanging around waiting to be lapped.

I've been tested a few times - ended up with a decent lead and seen a sitting duck on the track ahead of me - a nailed on T-bone - and must admit that I almost invariably take the T-bone and worry about placing second.

The beauty of the game I guess is that it caters for the real racers who want to win, but it also gives the people who aren't in contention for the win plenty to keep their interest too. A very difficult balance to accomplish in a game - keep hardcore and casual gamers interested in the same lobby.