Author Topic: Week #5 Update  (Read 45647 times)

sam223

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What about keep the tier system to easily define the cost per part and points added to car (class a/b/c/d) but allowing all to be open from the start.
So a tier 1 part would cost $50 and add 50 points to base car.A tier 5 part would cost $5000 and add 1000 points.Along with effecting the chassis stats . These will also include cosmetic changes.

e.g 'remove windows' -$50 +50 points (remove 10kg weight,increase visibility).
Allows the possibility for these options (which can be individual or combined)
'add steel window mesh' -$50 +50 points (increase weight 5kg,increase visibility vs cracked windscreen,very minor strength increase on front (receiving damage)).
'add steel sun visor' -$50 +50 points (+increase weight 3kg, decrease sun glare, very minor strength increase on front (receiving damage))

There would be loads of options in the opening tiers but overall the system would look like a pyramid with less practical changes at the top e.g 'replace engine with almost new race tuned one'. Higher tiers could also feature combined upgrades (done by a fabricator) costing you the same in points,more in cash but less in clicking/selecting time.

The career would then work like a multi league and combined league in one with non league special events thrown in aswell (cash only). Races throughout the season would be split into to class specific events (cash,points)/open events (bring anything but cash only/wildcards)/Chassis or car type (e.g all coupes) specific events (cash only)/region specific events(cash only)/race type specific events(cash,points,wildcard). You could compete in as much or as little of the combined season as you wanted but would be predominantly be competing in 1-2 classes plus overall league.

Each event would be made up of multiple knockout races (gives the impression you are competing against more players when offline) and a qualifiers final, plus special event at some race days.
e.g weekend 1 (Class B) 96 drivers in 4 heats,24 car final plus non points DD at the end.
weekend 2 (Class A) 120 drivers in 5 heats,24 car final no DD.
weekend 3 (Class C) 48 drivers in 2 DD heats,24 car DD final.
weekend 4 (open) 120 cars in 5 heats,24 car final (top 3 + 2 crashers from each heat),figure 8 race,DD.
weekend 5 (open) Teams of 4 (12 teams),2 x 6 team heats,6 team final (top 3 teams),DD.
Weekend 6 (all Euro Coupes) 24 cars in 1 heat + final. Lack of drivers so teams of 12 (2 teams) also on
etc etc

Trophies varying in size depending on difficulty will be awarded for all awards (event specific) for players want to keep track of player progression.

You would be competing throughout the season to earn enough points to try be in the top 24 of your chosen league, to qualify for the class/event specific grand final but also the reward of league standings.

The last race of the season would be the combined grandfinal (no class limit). With the top 96 overall (plus wildcards) going through to 4 knockout heats (top 6 go through) followed by the big trophy season ender final.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 02:28:15 PM by sam223 »
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Online Bangers:Wreckfest - https://goo.gl/AjDHU2

Jori Virtanen

  • Posts: 466
Geez, hey, whoa Nelly! You people are jumping into conclusions big time :)

First, single player:
Wreckfest won't have a campaign. That means no story, no story linked progression that opens you new tracks, challenges and cars, etc. There is no campaign. There is only persistent career mode.

Career Mode:
Wreckfest has a persistent career mode. There is no story, but there is open ended progression -- events, championships, races etc., and there's no limit how far you can go. You start the game with one car, you race to earn money and then you buy more cars to play with. That's pretty much it, when you boil it down.

Single Player vs. Multiplayer
Wreckfest has seamless SP/MP execution, and the two differ only very slightly. In SP, player has a selection of events to choose from, populated by bots on track. In MP, player has a selection of events to choose from, populated by other players. That's pretty much all the difference there is. Also, all progression made in one will carry over to the other, and nobody's forcing anyone to attend both. You find SP more appealing, you stick to that, and vice versa.
(There'll be a lot to do considering AI, as it needs to be quite cunning, else SP can be a bit predictable which MP will never be, thanks to human penchant for desperation and mischief. AI personalities, or, rather, behavior archetypes, are still being considered, as is asynchronous multiplayer and what it could be in Wreckfest.)

Tier System
Please, don't jump the gun here. To put it bluntly, you don't know enough about the tech tree or the tier system Wreckfest may or may not have to form an opinion on it, because we haven't told you what the current plans for those mechanics are. You're speculating wildly, and making assumptions on those speculations -- and then someone else takes those assumptions as facts :)
We are listening to your opinions on the subject, however, because the system's not been totally locked down yet, and is subject to change.
Your friendly neighborhood game designer

Musgroove

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I also hope we have advertisements for parts & whole cars up for sale...
and hopefully some random funny ones like depicted below.




Ahahah I love this idea.

Could be an opportunity to sneak in little references like "Seller: S. Martinez"

BenDover

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Geez, hey, whoa Nelly! You people are jumping into conclusions big time :)

First, single player:

Career Mode:

Single Player vs. Multiplayer

Tier System

DING DING DING!!! We got a winner over here !! :D

Thanks for the info, that will help many ppl and you may or you may not got some ideas from what speculations ppl have :) Anyway I think it sounds awesome what you are planing to do with the game and I am really glad to be here from the beginning, ofc much will change over time, the things we are use to right now, like the steering etc will be much different very soon I think!

I dont mind how the game is right now, I love it, but I think I will even love it even more when you have come to that point that you feel that almost everything is in the game, I have hard to w8 until that day even if it takes a long time, but I will be here w8ting :)
Clean and fair racer, but dont make me mad ;)
Clean Racer? Head on over to BenDovers NCG Group - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BensNCG#

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Frisker

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Thanks for the reply, Jori, helps alot. Can't wait to see what you got planned there!(Hope they're awesome ideas!)

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Purple44

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Jori, can you say if classifieds are still plan to be used in career mode? What ever form that takes.
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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Jori Virtanen

  • Posts: 466
Jori, can you say if classifieds are still plan to be used in career mode? What ever form that takes.

They're very much in the plans :)
Your friendly neighborhood game designer

Needles Kane

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So is Street Rod inspired upgrading is still in, even if it have tier system? Can we install and remove parts from car?

You shouldn't give us only partial information. I almost went to Steam forums and almost made topic where I shouted how this game needs a team that really cares and Bugbear is worst developer ever and this game is going to flop.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 07:27:14 PM by Needles Kane »

chuckskyline

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Thanks Jori.

The only thing I could add with the SP, is take a gander at the Driveatar tech Forza 5 has (Horizon 2 as well). While some people hate it, if you look at the complaints, its because the Driveatars are pretty unpredictable, constantly 'get in your way' crash into, and so on. While, I get this might be a massive undertaking for BB, since The people of Forza have Microsoft money, and a huge studio. Look at that tech would be very beneficial since all of the complaints of the Driveatars would make the SP AI incredibly fun. 

Just please.. please..please no rubber banding..

Also: Mopower: saw your post, couldn't reply. But good input. I think Jori makes my argument sort of moot (hes been doing that a lot lately, which is exactly what I want)

Anyway: Its good to see BB being a little bit more open on where this game is going. Please when you post update #6, include what is being worked on/ideas/wips/ of SP and MP and this tier system (as best you can)


LUNITIC_WILL

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i prefer if we got something like what the career in flatout 2 was. you have a few tracks and a few cars. single player has everything unlocked but career requires progression to unlock cars and tracks. the first cars are the AM1 and Euro and the first tracks are the gravel, tarmac, sandpit, small derby stadium.(would change to the actual names if bugbear gave us an update on the tracks)
"one shall stand, one shall fall" Optimus Prime 1984-present

Ving

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Jori, can you say if classifieds are still plan to be used in career mode? What ever form that takes.

They're very much in the plans :)

That in and of itself, is good to hear, because it implies alot about the rest of the system.

I know its a hard position to be in - deciding, or having someone else on staff deciding for you how much can be disclosed with the community, and thus speculation among that same community probably blowing up, getting worried, or going completely off on a tangent, but,

That is kinda what happens when people feel passionate about something (like your game- even in its development stage) but that i think is because of 3 basic factors:

1. Because of the impression the original kickstarter & communications made us hopeful about
2. Because the game has alot going for it already, but lacks factors yet added that could make or break whehter its niche or universally great
3. Because for whatever reason, be it confidential design issues you dont want slipped out to the competition, or because you may not have defined everything yourselves or what is possible, there is a strict hold on what you can communicate to us about the project.

I totally understand (I think? lol), and sympathize regarding being in that position, and i realize that its probably a bit of a fine line to ride, but the forum discussion and how we players/supporters are spinning off into tangents and wild speculation, illustrates that the community feels strongly about the product, and worried about really not being told exactly where the project is actually headed.

Maybe that cant be disclosed, but apparently, it was ok to tell us that classifieds are still on the planning board big-time? See, well, if that was communicated earlier, then alot of the angst and discussions here, probably wouldnt have spun out as much as they have. because that jst by itself, implies quite abit about your current intent regarding the rest of the system.

Really appreciate you jumping right in here Jori, I hope the staff realizes that just a little more, non-scheduled communication, can go miles to keep the community happier, and confident in where the project is all going. i think it matters, because of the nature of a project like this being out in the public due to the early access, and the waves and lulls in enthusiasm, that can create, and how that effects sales and public perception of where the project is headed.

When we are completely in the dark, its hard to push or defend the product as your player advocates. Thanks for bringing a little light to the subject. I hope you guys will see - as long as its not blowing smoke, that it will only be a positive to communicate with us a little, when we are in between patches, and have hit a bit of a lull.

I really like what you guys have done so far, its been solid, good decisions that have brought the game to where it is already, so I do still have confidence/hope in where its all going, but just to be totally clear - the long time between updates, by itself is understandable. Maybe not ideal, but totally reasonable. But the lull in just little communications, to keep us from worrying that the project isnt taking a dive, for whatever reason, really seems to need a little work.  I'm glad you jumped back into this conversation, I hope that that kind of communication, is something we can count on being more common as we progress here, because even though it does fill the need of those that want to 'know more' to a degree, we both know that isnt whats important. But what is important, is keeping enthusiasm, and word of mouth perception of the product positive or even alive.

So, i guess all i can really say for now is  - Keep up the good work, and dont forget all us little guys that are just waiting for excuses to brag to our buddies about how great your game is gonna be. You guys had us abit worried a few weeks ago, when you werent communicating much, and youve made moves to improve on that, -keep it going!



« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 09:13:24 PM by Ving »

Mopower

Thanks Jori.
Just please.. please..please no rubber banding..

Also: Mopower: saw your post, couldn't reply. But good input. I think Jori makes my argument sort of moot (hes been doing that a lot lately, which is exactly what I want)
Thanks for recognizing it. I thought you had just completely quit looking at it or something :p

And agreed on rubberbanding.

Jori Virtanen

  • Posts: 466
No worries, there'll be no rubberbanding :)

So is Street Rod inspired upgrading still in, even if it have tier system? Can we install and remove parts from car?

Oh yes.
Car tuning on the other hand, i.e. tweaking separate components for optimal results probably won't happen. Our team could include tuning in Wreckfest for sure, but it's a matter of resources. Bugbear is a relatively small company, and of us, only a handful of people could tackle that section of development. Effectively tuning alters the physics values of the various parts in the car, and considering the amount of physics involved in car handling, getting it all just right would be a huge endeavor. In short, while we'd love tuning to be included, we don't think it would justify the delay it would cause to the overall production time. That's why we'll stick with just the selection of various car parts, and the effects tech tree etc. gives you.


You shouldn't give us only partial information.

We can't give you more than partial, because going into more detail and then changing those plans would make us look real foolish, not to mention all the outcry this all would entail. So no, we won't give you more than partial information before we can say what direction we're going :)
So it's not as much a want of withholding information for secrecy's sake, like competition and such, as it is about managing people's expectations.

Your friendly neighborhood game designer

suckiden

  • Posts: 25
looks like the guys over at BeamNG takes the tyre physics serious too  ;D

http://www.beamng.com/entries/112-A-look-at-tire-development-in-BeamNG-%28Part-1%29

Purple44

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  • Posts: 8104
looks like the guys over at BeamNG takes the tyre physics serious too  ;D

http://www.beamng.com/entries/112-A-look-at-tire-development-in-BeamNG-%28Part-1%29

Was curious about this info in blog:

Normal Load Sensitivity
In high school physics class you might have been taught the basic friction formula, and been told that the friction coefficient is some constant independent of normal force. This is quite far from true on real tires. A tire develops proportionally less peak lateral force as its normal force increases. For example, a tire that can deliver a peak grip of 1g on a car weighing 2000lb may only be able to deliver 0.8g on a 4000lb car. Higher normal forces also deform the tire more, leading to lower cornering stiffness. This behavior is the primary reason it is important to manage weight transfer in a car! This test is pretty simple; I just change the node weight of the test carriage to see the effect on any of the above tests.



Is this effect in Wreckfest? Say racing tire on the Euro would have a little more grip ( if the engine not to powerful that just spins the tires ), than the racing tire on the heavy Sedan?
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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