Author Topic: Mirrors / Virtual mirrors / Proximity pointers ?  (Read 2022 times)

hande11

  • Posts: 203
Mirrors / Virtual mirrors / Proximity pointers ?

Not sure if there was dedicated thread for it already, but would like to bumb topic. I know there is pressure to get physics build first out, but still would like to discuss some more for possibility to get some sort of mirrors (or their alternatives) to some later build.

Why mirrors are so badly needed for somewhat large amount of drivers:

For flexible driving views:
- When having mirrors, i could drive in all events with inside views (either in cockpit, hood or front bumber views). When driving inside view, fov is severally limited, ie 90 degrees. Outsiside view gives 180-360 degrees fov, what comes to seeing what is in near car "boundaries" or in proximity of car.

For enjoyin best of driving physics:
- It can be a preference, but i will enjoy much more the driving physics "kicking-in" when i drive in any of inside views. Ie, car's tail starting to slightly slide, effect of bumbs, starting to loose or improve traction, etc. - i get better response and much more "fidelity" from Wreckfest's great driving engine when driving in inside views. Also inside view creates better immersion (car physical properties, windshield conditions, deformed front hood, ect.. and overall better simulation closer to "real life" experience. That's why i want to stick with inside views in all type of driving events. And i need some sort of mirrors for this :)

For clean racing:
- When driving in inside views, with mirrors, i could choose correct driving lines. If competitor is passing me by, with mirror(s) i will know when competitor is on my side and i will not accidentally cut faster competitor out / wreck competitor (and end his/her and my fine race efforts). This is big issue for me constantly on clean races.

For banger / dirty racing:
- When driving in inside views, with mirrors, i could know when strategically block competitor trying to either pass me by or i can prepere for possibility that competitor is trying to pit maneuver me or push me out from track. When driving outside view pitting or pushing others might be much easier than driving in any "inside" views (especially in oval tracks)

For fair fight and driving rhytm:
- Mirrors would give for inside view drivers more fair fight, especially for banger / dirty racing events.
- Not all gamers have multiple monitors setups, or game controllers where using constantly side or back views is convinient (it's always s bit distracting the driving rhytm, if you switch the views anyway).

Challenges implementing mirrors?
- Development time is not available? Make low-quality mirrors, it's just needed to show approaching and close to body opponent cars on sides and on tail. Mirrors could project quite low quality objects, even very non-textured and "blocky" cars and still be giving all funtional benefits.
- Car body deformation issue? Side mirrors are gone when crashing. Either make side mirrors more durable or implement windshield mirror which usually sticks with car body, even on high car deformations.
- If using only windshield mirror, make it having large view-of-field to see all cars that are hanging in tail and on both sides.
- For frame-rate hit, make mirrors toggleable / optional. In replays, mirrors don't need any projection.

Can't-do-traditional-mirrors-alternative?
- Implement optional virtual mirrors: sides and/or windshield. Just a floating window, for example in lower / top corners in inside views.

Can't-do-any-mirrors-alternative?
- Give inside view drivers still some relief: optional arrow indicators / proximity sensors to show pointer/symbol when car is on your side or very close to your rear bumber. It could be compromise and give some solution to fundamental issues in all above problems.

Hmm, guess i really want to have them mirrors, just saying'  ;)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 12:08:32 PM by hande11 »
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Aerotactics

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  • Posts: 744
Im 95% sure that bangers dont have mirrors for safety reasons. They also dont have glass windows.

hande11

  • Posts: 203
Im 95% sure that bangers dont have mirrors for safety reasons. They also dont have glass windows.

Now to think, you're correct! Maybe only some *very* occasional DIY rearview mirrors on some banger races.. 
not that this guy will see anything useful from his mirror.. ;)
(Courtesy of Banger Racers Celebrate The 50th Anniversary Of The Ford Cortina)

Still if only talking banger races, i would not consider optional mirrors (virtual, rearview, proximity helper) way too unrealistic. Optional mirror/helper would help for "situation awareness" in cockpit field of view so that it would more closely match the human natural view of field combined to subtle head+eye movements and opponent tracking ability without losing totally focus to where car is going. And for clean racing ofc, they would be very realistic.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 11:18:48 PM by hande11 »
i5 2500K, 8GB RAMDDR3 1600, Win7 64-bit
GTX 560 DCII TOP, 1GB GDDR5, Controller: keyboard (current generic powersliding biased test setup)
Elwood: "Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration.. don't fail me now!"

RickyB

  • Posts: 753

These suggestions may become obsolete in the next build (in a few days?), but since I did some pics for explanation, because english isn't my first language, I thought I should share them anyway.
Like probably the vast majority of players, I completeley agree to the fact, that you have know, what's going on at your back if you wanna drive with Cockpit/Hood/Bumper view without looking back every few seconds.
so that's a huuuge disadvantage to outside view. A real mirror imho would only look good in cockpit view, so these are suggestions for virtual mirror / tactical(?) HUD
SITUATION EXAMPLE: (you know the car on the right is going to hit you. in outside view you can react properly. in other views you have no idea what's going to happen.)


Suggestion (1) - 'tactical' top down view combined with the already existing damage-indicator - whatever that's good for in a race ;) click to enlarge. very little CPU-Power needed(?)
   

Suggestion (2) - some sort of thermal / night vision to recognise the other cars easier in a virtual mirror / camera on the trunk of you car. Probably less CPU and render-power needed that an actual mirror(?) - you would only have to render about one or two car-lengths behind your car.(?)
   

of course the trunk could be black, white or grey in the thermal/night cam. it's just for better recognition.
hoping for something like that to come  :D



Purple44

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  • Posts: 8353
This what Bugbear Dev Jori had to say back in Ferbuary:

http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,7517.0.html  my post #289

Working (low res) mirrors would help, before they get knocked off by someone caving the door in :P

great, but doesn't really work for all views though. Lovely for in car view, hopeless for chase-cam.

I've mocked up another screen for discussion...



The triangles at the bottom indicate the vehicles behind you and their positions on the track (to your left or right).
The larger the triangle, the nearer the vehicle.
Green triangle - other vehicle has had a relatively clean race so far.
yellowy triangle, other vehicle has had average contact with other vehicles.
Red triangle - you and him have already had contact / he's a filthy driver.

As you lose your wing-mirrors, the info from each affected side could be missing. If you have a large, central rear-view mirror ( most banger racers do ), you still get info from directly behind you, but you will not see warnings for vehicles off to the side.

it's quite a lot of extra info you'd be gaining, so as per many things, maybe server hosts can decide to enable / disable it?

For clean racing, the colours could indicate either someone on the same lap as you, or someone trying to lap you.

I have ask for this too, but Jori said it would not happen.






We may get a rear-view mirror thou:

Any chance we will get mirrors in the next patch? I drive mainly dash and bumper cam. Checking left and right takes a while(it's not instant) so I sometime swerve left or right. Having left and right mirror would be great but a center mirror is also good.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/228380/discussions/0/616199347862562059/

Quote from: Jori;610572929719987572
Working mirrors are on our to-do list for sure :)


Quote from: Jori;610572929720289644
Quote from: Purple44;610572929720137618
I use chase camera, so no need of a mirrors for me, but Jori, would it be possible to have an arrow indicator showing where player is when he\she is close behind you?



Probably not, as it's not very immersive and more arcade like than not.
As for the mirrors, we figured that the mirror could be on the upper section of the screen regardless of your point of view. That way the benefits of the mirror wouldn't be tied to a single perspective, but be of use at all times, no matter what your preferred view is.


Any chance we will get mirrors in the next patch?

Nope. Mirrors are tricky, because they require a surprising amount of horsepower to work. That requires clever coding and optimizing, and we won't delay the new build for that. The mirrors are on our to-do list, but they're not a priority.



I'm still a fan of the arrow indicator that Codemasters did for GRID 2. But willing to give mirror at top of screen a try.
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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BrianUK

Personally, I'd prefer just a mirror as part of the HUD. How can I sell someone a dummy if they get told by an arrow that I'm swapping sides?
  • #5

  • sam223

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    • Posts: 3240
    Arrows are useless compared with a virtual mirror. You cannot tell direction,speed or rotation from a pointing arrow.
    If the problem is system resources. Just render the virtual mirror with no dynamic lighting,reflections,shadows or particle effects.
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    Ak1504

    • Posts: 69
    The game has improved a lot but i still miss a virtual mirror. I drive in cockpit view and it would be nice to know whats going on behind me without looking back :)
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    Hi!

    The clean racing folk race cars have mirrors.

    I want folk racing option.
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    sam223

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    • Posts: 3240
    Bangers have mirrors also so its appropriate. Just depends if its possible
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    Ak1504

    • Posts: 69
    Sry I don´t meant the mirrors on the cars. I was talking about an optional small virtual rear view mirror for the HUD.
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