Author Topic: Why the game is so boring? Is it arcade or sim?  (Read 14918 times)

lastbreath

  • Posts: 101
It's called realism.

Fuck realism! Leave it for GT, AC or PC.
Wreckfest should be crazy!
Not such crazy as FO2.
It should be a golden middle (sry for bad english) - arcade handling but realistic damage.

But wreckfest is no more a sim than gran tourismo or grid.

I can play Race Driver: GRID with KB. I can play GRID2 with KB. I can play Autosport with KB.
I even can compete in online GRID racing with KB!

But this is out of my skill:



I know I push pedal to the metal, but the goal is to show that it's impossible to straighten a car without slow down to zero. In a f.u k.ing arcade! I want speed and crashes, not a boring simulator!

WorldofBay

  • Posts: 750
*sigh*



you don't even try to control anything in your vid. also you should open your diff a bit...
my vid was made with locked diff, stiff sus and n21r gearbox, controlled by KB.

as you see i go fullspeed at start, just like you, but i have full control. and at turn 2 i almost lose the car but get it to stay on track without braking. of course in this build i often spin out but yeah it's a locked diff on a muscle car and i have no assists enabled so this is what i expect to happen.
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce 660ti
CPU: Intel i5-3570k
Keyboard racer inside!

Quote from: Roy
i laugh everytime i see somebody pulling on WorldofBay to overtake clean.
biggest mistake ever.

Quote from: sam223
Poor planning is a big problem for a lot of EA titles
like fifa, simcity, battlefield, ...

Cono

  • Posts: 197
Fuck realism! Leave it for GT, AC or PC.
Wreckfest should be crazy!
Not such crazy as FO2.
It should be a golden middle (sry for bad english) - arcade handling but realistic damage.

I would say opposite.
(Semi-)Realistic, but easy handling.
Arcade damage, funny looking wrecked cars and epic crashes.

BrianUK

Fuck realism! Leave it for GT, AC or PC.
Wreckfest should be crazy!
Not such crazy as FO2.
It should be a golden middle (sry for bad english) - arcade handling but realistic damage.

I would say opposite.
(Semi-)Realistic, but easy handling.
Arcade damage, funny looking wrecked cars and epic crashes.

If the handling is easy, there is no challenge. Without a challenge, there is little fun and people won't play beyond the second track. Crashing and car parts exploding everywhere is fantastic, but when the cars are boring to drive, it's not enough to keep players coming back for more. I think the handling we got in build 7 is a steeper learning curve at first, but once you realise you cannot just full-throttle everything, it becomes a more enjoyable experience.

Bay drives very well on keyboard, I know many fantastic pad players and some very fast wheel players, so I will no longer accept people saying it's too hard - it just comes across as 'Omg I have to try, but I cba, give me a tl;dr driving model pl0x'. You are given assists in the game, so use them if you need to.

Cono

  • Posts: 197
If the handling is easy, there is no challenge. Without a challenge, there is little fun and people won't play beyond the second track. Crashing and car parts exploding everywhere is fantastic, but when the cars are boring to drive, it's not enough to keep players coming back for more.

By easy I mean easy to approach. Easy handling doesn't mean easy to master.
I keep comparing this to DiRT Rally, because they got it right.
There it's easy to keep car on track, but it's very hard to master when you drive faster and cut more.
I have many casual friends and even they can drive DiRT Rally (with Thrustmaster wheel) without practicing, because they know how to drive an actual car.
And it isn't because handling would be too arcade.

If handling is easy, then we could drive faster and that's how it come more challenging.
When we drive faster, also crashes and wrecking looks much more epic.

I think the handling we got in build 7 is a steeper learning curve at first, but once you realise you cannot just full-throttle everything, it becomes a more enjoyable experience.

I think we need more grip and speed, because current driving is a bit too boring.

Bay drives very well on keyboard, I know many fantastic pad players and some very fast wheel players, so I will no longer accept people saying it's too hard - it just comes across as 'Omg I have to try, but I cba, give me a tl;dr driving model pl0x'. You are given assists in the game, so use them if you need to.

It's possible to learn almost anything, even unrealistic physics from other world with Commodore 64 joystick.
Game should be realistic with wheel and without assists.
It really isn't that hard to drive an actual car.

It feels like this game is designed for xbox-controllers atm.
There's way too much drifting going on.

I'm sure they will fix handling by feedback they get from here and Steam forums.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 01:02:06 PM by Cono »

Nice Glasses

  • Posts: 52
I think the Am3 rotates a little to quickly though when loss of grip but dont find it that hard to handle, should just rotate a little slower.


Yes, at 2 minutes 15 seconds this video shows exactly what's wrong atm. It shouldn't be THAT hard even if you give gas.

http://youtu.be/onIWZHcw_Sg?t=2m15s


First of all thanks for using my video as an example :D. Second I take responsibility for that mistake. It happened before I made proper adjustments to the throttle and steering inputs (as I said before I wouldn't get any throttle input before 50% and when I got to 50% I would suddenly jump up to half throttle (BAD) ) but I made another video showing how much better I can control it when the settings get tweaked a bit.



and of course driving like that isn't meant to be easy (this isn't burnout).. You're pushing the limits of the cars handling and when you mess up... well shit goes down and its up to you to learn where that limit lies. I like that the game isn't all forgiving because it's a racing game. A game that's forgiving means it's easy to win even when you're not good at it (that can get pretty old after a while) and my video shows that even after you've made it to first place the race doesn't end there and could go wrong at any moment (gives more of a challenge rather than expecting everyone to BOOST up to you..). To me that keeps things interesting and I know not everyone will agree because some people like the entitlement of feeling like they should be good at everything (and when they're not good it's the games fault and not theirs). I'm ranting so I'll stop there.. but just keep in mind the game is still being developed and tweaked all over the place so we're still gonna see changes as more updates come.

Cono

  • Posts: 197
Tried it again with different settings.
Still if rear wheels lose grip and back of the car slides a bit, it's a lost game.
Don't know if it's realistic or not, but it's definitely boring as hell.

More grip and speed is my conclusion.

Nice Glasses

  • Posts: 52
Sit tight for the update where more customization comes in. I'm sure you'll see more speed and grip at some point.

WorldofBay

  • Posts: 750
I like that the game isn't all forgiving because it's a racing game. A game that's forgiving means it's easy to win even when you're not good at it (that can get pretty old after a while) and my video shows that even after you've made it to first place the race doesn't end there and could go wrong at any moment (gives more of a challenge rather than expecting everyone to BOOST up to you..).

that is exactly my opinion and nowadays many devs do it wrong. give the players what they need, not what they want and your game will live forever!

if you aren't punished for your mistakes you have no reason to try your best. yeah it may seem fun when everything is easy but after few minutes this is boring. of course many gamers complain when they get punished for their mistakes, but this little thing keeps the game interesting for years.

got a second too late to the middle tiberium field in c&c? haha down you go! missed that boost field in trackmania? your time is shitty now! crashed into a tree in flatout 1? there goes the handling! why are those games still played? you know it.
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce 660ti
CPU: Intel i5-3570k
Keyboard racer inside!

Quote from: Roy
i laugh everytime i see somebody pulling on WorldofBay to overtake clean.
biggest mistake ever.

Quote from: sam223
Poor planning is a big problem for a lot of EA titles
like fifa, simcity, battlefield, ...

Cono

  • Posts: 197
Driving with high rotation wheel (540 degrees or more) is the problem.
It's so much faster to go full left (-270 degrees) to full right (+270 degrees) with gamepad than high rotation wheel.
Current build is fine IF you play with gamepad (xbox) controller.

Here's things that needs to be fixed:
1. Less understeering
2. More grip
3. Better control on high speeds
4. Easier counter-steering with high rotation wheels

sam223

  • *
  • Posts: 2743
Driving with high rotation wheel (540 degrees or more) is the problem.
It's so much faster to go full left (-270 degrees) to full right (+270 degrees) with gamepad than high rotation wheel.
Current build is fine IF you play with gamepad (xbox) controller.

Here's things that needs to be fixed:
1. Less understeering
2. More grip
3. Better control on high speeds
4. Easier counter-steering with high rotation wheels

Im not using my g25 with wreckfest atm, not racing at all really (performance issues as stated before).
From experience though high wheel rotation (540) is never good. Its usually always faster and easier to drive with under 270 degrees. Depends how wreckfest is setup though,does lowering the rotation angle out of the game reduce the amount of steering lock you can achieve, or do you still get the same amount of lock with less turning of the wheel?

Ive requested they add degrees of lock as a upgrade option in game, since it'll let people manually tweak handling per track and setup, based on their input.
http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,7807.0.html
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 04:00:59 PM by sam223 »
Dell U2515H 25",  i5-4690k @4.0ghz, 8gb ram, Zotac GTX 960 4GB, 120gb SSD, 1tb HHD, win 7, G25/Ps3 pad
Online Bangers:Wreckfest - https://goo.gl/AjDHU2

Frisker

  • Posts: 1204
Driving with high rotation wheel (540 degrees or more) is the problem.
It's so much faster to go full left (-270 degrees) to full right (+270 degrees) with gamepad than high rotation wheel.
Current build is fine IF you play with gamepad (xbox) controller.

Here's things that needs to be fixed:
1. Less understeering
2. More grip
3. Better control on high speeds
4. Easier counter-steering with high rotation wheels

The wheel rotation can be adjusted, if I played on 900 degrees my wheel is cabable of, I'd have a problem :P

i5 2310, 2.9Ghz
GeForce GTX 750 ti, 2Gb
8Gb's RAM

Cono

  • Posts: 197
if you aren't punished for your mistakes you have no reason to try your best. yeah it may seem fun when everything is easy but after few minutes this is boring. of course many gamers complain when they get punished for their mistakes, but this little thing keeps the game interesting for years.

Best approach is easy to learn and difficult to master.
Punishments are more than welcome, if it feels like that you really deserved it.

It should be something like:
You drove way too fast and crashed, but damn that was a beautiful crash.

Now it's like:
You drove 70 km/h and spinned 180 degrees, because there's isn't enough grip and cars keep understeering at moderate speed even when you have turned your wheel to lock and you just can't rotate to opposite lock fast enough.
Way too punishing. It's just not fun anymore.

Frisker

  • Posts: 1204
if you aren't punished for your mistakes you have no reason to try your best. yeah it may seem fun when everything is easy but after few minutes this is boring. of course many gamers complain when they get punished for their mistakes, but this little thing keeps the game interesting for years.

Best approach is easy to learn and difficult to master.
Punishments are more than welcome, if it feels like that you really deserved it.

It should be something like:
You drove way too fast and crashed, but damn that was a beautiful crash.

Now it's like:
You drove 70 km/h and spinned 180 degrees, because there's isn't enough grip and cars keep understeering at moderate speed even when you have turned your wheel to lock and you just can't rotate to opposite lock fast enough.
Way too punishing. It's just not fun anymore.

You use too much rotation, try lowering it, it's much easier to regain control.

i5 2310, 2.9Ghz
GeForce GTX 750 ti, 2Gb
8Gb's RAM

sam223

  • *
  • Posts: 2743
@Cono: you mean over or understeer?
Understeer is where you turn but carry on straight. Due to turning in to fast,too much weight on the rear,to much grip on rear vs front,too much force required to rotate on z axis,centre of mass to far back,brakes to strong on rear vs front, too slow movement of weight from rear to front,too much steering lock angle,locking brakes whilst turning (not shifting weight forward via braking before turning),open diff,too low revs through the corner.
Oversteer is where you turn a little but the back end steps out. Opposite to most of the above.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 04:23:03 PM by sam223 »
Dell U2515H 25",  i5-4690k @4.0ghz, 8gb ram, Zotac GTX 960 4GB, 120gb SSD, 1tb HHD, win 7, G25/Ps3 pad
Online Bangers:Wreckfest - https://goo.gl/AjDHU2