Author Topic: Why the game is so boring? Is it arcade or sim?  (Read 10770 times)

Cono

  • Posts: 197
From experience though high wheel rotation (540) is never good. Its usually always faster and easier to drive with under 270 degrees.

Only Formula 1 have that low wheel rotations. Real cars have 540-1080 degree rotations.

1080 Older cars.
900 Usually anything from average road cars to sports cars.
720 Drift cars. Multiple classes of Rally cars (group N)
540 GT1 and 3 spec race cars, and WRC Rally cars.
360 or less. Formula 1 cars.

It will help if you drive with lower rotations or with gamepad, but it just doesn't feel right.

540 degrees feels very good, when it's properly supported.

@Cono: you mean over or understeer?
Understeer is where you turn but carry on straight. Due to turning in to fast,too much weight on the rear,to much grip on rear vs front,too much force required to rotate on z axis,centre of mass to far back,brakes to strong on rear vs front, too slow movement of weight from rear to front,too much steering lock angle,locking brakes whilst turning (not shifting weight forward via braking before turning)
Oversteer is where you turn a little but the back end steps out.


Yes I meant understeering.
When I turn my wheel fully to left (to lock) car understeers still (push forward / directly straight) at moderate speed.

rizu explained it here:
http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,7705.msg73826.html#msg73826
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 04:34:07 PM by Cono »

sam223

  • *
  • Posts: 2567
From experience though high wheel rotation (540) is never good. Its usually always faster and easier to drive with under 270 degrees.

Only Formula 1 have that low wheel rotations. Real cars have 540-1080 degree rotations.

1080 Older cars.
900 Usually anything from average road cars to sports cars.
720 Drift cars. Multiple classes of Rally cars (group N)
540 GT1 and 3 spec race cars, and WRC Rally cars.
360 or less. Formula 1 cars.

It will help if you drive with lower rotations or with gamepad, but it just doesn't feel right.

540 degrees feels very good, when it's properly supported.

@Cono: you mean over or understeer?
Understeer is where you turn but carry on straight. Due to turning in to fast,too much weight on the rear,to much grip on rear vs front,too much force required to rotate on z axis,centre of mass to far back,brakes to strong on rear vs front, too slow movement of weight from rear to front,too much steering lock angle,locking brakes whilst turning (not shifting weight forward via braking before turning)
Oversteer is where you turn a little but the back end steps out.


Yes I meant understeering.
When I turn my wheel fully to left (to lock) still car understeers (push forward / directly straight).

rizu explained it here:
http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,7705.msg73826.html#msg73826


If you are turning full lock,that is why you are understeering. You dont need more grip. Otherwise you will have the equivalent of slot cars,cars stuck to track with no oversteer. Try turning in less,brake/let off throttle before so weight shifts forward before turning in then power out of the bend. You should never need full lock unless you are just turning around at slow speed or completely sideways with full opposite lock.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 04:54:22 PM by sam223 »
Dell U2515H 25",  i5-4690k @4.0ghz, 8gb ram, Zotac GTX 960 4GB, 120gb SSD, 1tb HHD, win 7, G25/Ps3 pad
Online Bangers:Wreckfest - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=740683245

Cono

  • Posts: 197
If you are turning full lock,that is why you are understeering. You dont need more grip. Otherwise you will have the equivalent of slot cars,cars stuck to track with no oversteer. Try turning in less,brake/let off throttle before so weight shifts forward before turning in then power out of the bend. You should never need full lock unless you are just turning around at slow speed or and completely sideways with full opposite lock.

I tried this again.
When I turned accelerator sensitivity to -100%, it helped a bit.
Understeering is still a problem on higher speeds ~120 km/h.
At lower speeds I have to sweat with gas pedal to prevent oversteering.
It really feels like that there isn't enough grip or something else odd.
It just doesn't feel good.

sam223

  • *
  • Posts: 2567
If you are turning full lock,that is why you are understeering. You dont need more grip. Otherwise you will have the equivalent of slot cars,cars stuck to track with no oversteer. Try turning in less,brake/let off throttle before so weight shifts forward before turning in then power out of the bend. You should never need full lock unless you are just turning around at slow speed or and completely sideways with full opposite lock.

I tried this again.
When I turned accelerator sensitivity to -100%, it helped a bit.
Understeering is still a problem on higher speeds ~120 km/h.
At lower speeds I have to sweat with gas pedal to prevent oversteering.
It really feels like that there isn't enough grip or something else odd.
It just doesn't feel good.
There will be something wrong somewhere no doubt. Id have done a lot more testing if performance were better. If no performance increase ill just have to wait a few months i guess for a better pc.
Anyway out of interest, what diff and suspension settings?
Ive found for a long time the stiff suspension settings to feel a bit off. Like lower suspension only move centre of mass back to the rear of the car. Making it feels like im driving a snake from it tail. Always found the soft suspension setup the nicest,since rotation speed was faster and felt like the centre of mass was closer to the driver rather than the rear.
Dell U2515H 25",  i5-4690k @4.0ghz, 8gb ram, Zotac GTX 960 4GB, 120gb SSD, 1tb HHD, win 7, G25/Ps3 pad
Online Bangers:Wreckfest - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=740683245

Frisker

  • Posts: 1204
-delete-
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 09:54:33 PM by Frisker »

i5 2310, 2.9Ghz
GeForce GTX 750 ti, 2Gb
8Gb's RAM

BrianUK

I don't think it's boring at all:



Although, that video does highlight the total absence of grip on Tarmac.

lastbreath

  • Posts: 95
*sigh*

http://youtu.be/lad-K3vhNVI

you don't even try to control anything in your vid


Try FO1. It's easy to powerslide and easy to straighten up the car.
In Wreckfest when you're trying to straighten up the car, your err... cowl(?) is thrown from side to side. It's not spinning after acceleration, it's too sharp handling.

And yes, your video is cool for a sim. But we're talking about Wreckfest. I want see speed, powersliding and ramps:



« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 08:47:10 PM by lastbreath »

WorldofBay

  • Posts: 750
*sigh*

http://youtu.be/lad-K3vhNVI

you don't even try to control anything in your vid


Try FO1. It's easy to powerslide and easy to straighten up the car.
In Wreckfest when you're trying to straighten up the car, your err... cowl(?) is thrown from side to side. It's not spinning after acceleration, it's too sharp handling.

And yes, your video is cool for a sim. But we're talking about Wreckfest. I want see speed, powersliding and ramps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKSGSCSUTs


i completed flatout 1 career 4 times and still play it quite often. the handling is so incredibly easy that i almost never brake in that game. i mostly play derby because there the cars are harder to control. i especially like the speedevil there. the car that can do a 3600° (yep right amount of zeroes) spin without steereing.
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce 660ti
CPU: Intel i5-3570k
Keyboard racer inside!

Quote from: Roy
i laugh everytime i see somebody pulling on WorldofBay to overtake clean.
biggest mistake ever.

Quote from: sam223
Poor planning is a big problem for a lot of EA titles
like fifa, simcity, battlefield, ...

Cono

  • Posts: 197
*sigh*

http://youtu.be/lad-K3vhNVI

you don't even try to control anything in your vid


Try FO1. It's easy to powerslide and easy to straighten up the car.
In Wreckfest when you're trying to straighten up the car, your err... cowl(?) is thrown from side to side. It's not spinning after acceleration, it's too sharp handling.

And yes, your video is cool for a sim. But we're talking about Wreckfest. I want see speed, powersliding and ramps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKSGSCSUTs


i completed flatout 1 career 4 times and still play it quite often. the handling is so incredibly easy that i almost never brake in that game. i mostly play derby because there the cars are harder to control. i especially like the speedevil there. the car that can do a 3600° (yep right amount of zeroes) spin without steereing.


I have played Wreckfest a lot after latest hotfix and handling is quite good now.
Handling shouldn't be too easy, but still easy to learn and hard to master.
Less understeering, less spinning because of other players and better high rotation wheel support are my only concerns atm.

Nothing fatal anymore really.

lastbreath

  • Posts: 95
Realistic handling means less speed
Less speed means less crashes
I don't want 300 km/h like it was in FO2
But I also don't want to hit breaks at the corner to make correct apex. It's not Gran Turismo

And maybe handling is something personal but tracks definitely needs more ramps and obstacles. And shortcuts. Now tracks look very "clean"
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 01:03:58 AM by lastbreath »

rwb

  • Posts: 276
But I also don't want to hit breaks at the corner to make correct apex.

Then what's the point of playing a game where you race an automobile? Without the attributes of a car you're just moving objects around on a screen. Immersion should come with familiarity, and I should hope most people who are passionate about racing are familiar with the basics of car control.

Racing in reality has its drawbacks. Expense, painful or deadly consequences, time and opportunity costs. Games give us the chance to experience an approximation of this hobby without any downside but potentially lack of sun and exercise.

I suppose some come at this from a "gamer's" perspective, where they just want something to do that isn't too frustrating, but I get the sense that the people developing this are actually racing fans, and that's very satisfying. I'm hoping they want to replicate a more accessible experience than a supercar on some circuit in Italy or Japan that I'll likely never drive on; anyone could theoretically buy, build and race the type of car you'd drive in this game, and that holds a particular excitement for me.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 04:19:47 AM by rwb »

lastbreath

  • Posts: 95
FO1 has no realistic handling. But is it a bad game?
Split/Second has no realistic handling. But is it a bad game?
GRID 2 handling is far from realistic but it fits perfectly for "mad" racing.

Don't mix games with clean correct racing (simulators) and "mad" arcades about crashing. Realistic handling simply doesn't fit for such games! Of course, it should has physics base, but not so tight and hard as real simulators!

WorldofBay

  • Posts: 750
FO1 has no realistic handling. But is it a bad game?
Split/Second has no realistic handling. But is it a bad game?
GRID 2 handling is far from realistic but it fits perfectly for "mad" racing.

Don't mix games with clean correct racing (simulators) and "mad" arcades about crashing. Realistic handling simply doesn't fit for such games! Of course, it should has physics base, but not so tight and hard as real simulators!

actually i want exactly that type of game. a game that offers proper racing with fully destroyable cars and good visible damage. it is not exactly the game i want now as derby needs more emphasis but the racing part is great already.
GPU: Gigabyte GeForce 660ti
CPU: Intel i5-3570k
Keyboard racer inside!

Quote from: Roy
i laugh everytime i see somebody pulling on WorldofBay to overtake clean.
biggest mistake ever.

Quote from: sam223
Poor planning is a big problem for a lot of EA titles
like fifa, simcity, battlefield, ...

Frisker

  • Posts: 1204

Don't mix games with clean correct racing (simulators) and "mad" arcades about crashing. Realistic handling simply doesn't fit for such games! Of course, it should has physics base, but not so tight and hard as real simulators!

Why exactly doesn't realistic handling and crashing fit together? I actually think it's brilliant, yes I loved Flatout, Burnout series is good etc. But all those are arcade. Wreckfest is more realistic approach, and I like it alot.

i5 2310, 2.9Ghz
GeForce GTX 750 ti, 2Gb
8Gb's RAM

Cono

  • Posts: 197
Everything is fine as long as Wreckfest is reachable for casuals too.
Easy to learn and hard to master.