Author Topic: Shorter tracks needed before Build 8 Rolls Out!  (Read 6946 times)

Purple44

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Ya we definitely need more of other types of tracks, like a crash alley and the forest track we saw pics of.

But I've been wanting a GRID 1 style derby figure 8 track since before Build #1 got release. I can wait until final release version to see it, if need be.



If Bugbear would add one more crossing to my track design, I would be very, very happy camper if Bugbear were to do this track ( I could mod in the jump ramps later ): 

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BrianUK

More crossovers doesn't instantly mean more excitement - the cars will likely always be moving slower when they get hit every five seconds and the crashes will be pretty tame. The large figure 8 has the benefit of cars hitting each other at over 60 mph, which results in pretty spectacular action.

If we must have more than one crossover, we could utilise both the ovals on the new oval (inner and outer) and have the crosses being where you change over (although it would take a little working out). The cars will have enough time to build up some pace again between the crosses and the faster cars coming from the outer oval would hit very hard. I would do an MSPaint masterpiece, but it's time for bed right now.

We shouldn't bog ourselves down with ovals and all of their subtypes. An oval just isn't exciting (in my opinion). Most people play oval because of the wrecking that can be done (this is the reason I see most cited for playing that track), not because of the thrill of turning left all the time. That wrecking can be captured in a short track with a lap time of less than 35 seconds, although the fact the cars have been slowed down has somewhat reduced that.

We should be more addressing the obscene width of some tracks, where you can fit 4 or 5 abreast without problems.

As for new tracks for build 8 - how about we finish the ones that STILL aren't finished?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 02:46:28 AM by BrianUK »

Purple44

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More crossovers doesn't instantly mean more excitement - the cars will likely always be moving slower when they get hit every five seconds and the crashes will be pretty tame. The large figure 8 has the benefit of cars hitting each other at over 60 mph, which results in pretty spectacular action.



Main reason for more crossovers is to up the odds of being T-bone in a crossing and loosing your 1st place position, maybe even get your car wrecked.

In my figure 8 track design, the cars will be going even faster than the speeds they hit in the oval figure 8 track. If you make it through the middle crossing ( #2 ) of the track where you are hitting 60 mph, then you have another section of track to build up even more speed before hitting the next crossing at the outer oval ( #3 ). Might be hitting close to full speed of car by then, 80 mph. There should be some major hits there.



The excitement for me in a figure 8 race, is surviving a figure 8 race. You have not won a figure race on tracks like these until you cross the finish line. I have seen it many times in GRID 1 derby fig8 racing and a few times in Wreckfest figure racing where the leader was taken out in the final lap, sometimes just a few feet from the finish line!!  :D

In GRID 1 derby racing, I have won a few races where I was in 4th, 3rd position half way through race and got 1st thanks to the wreckers wrecking the leaders or slowing them down enough for me to catch up and pit the leader.  :)

And now add team racing in Wreckfest, it can be harder to finish the race while in first. If I'm in a Wreckfest figure 8 team race and I'm not fighting for the top 3 spots ( which is most the time :P ), watch out if you are in the lead car of the other team(s), I will be gunning for you.  :)
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dbs213

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I prefer a small buffer in between cross-overs like how GRID did it. With 23 other cars on the field, there will always be a wreck happening somewhere in the cross overs.
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BrianUK




The main issue with this design is cross-over 4, where the cross-over is at the end of a braking zone, and at the start of a turn exit. Cars won't be moving very fast at all, especially with a turn that tight.

I threw something together in MSPaint, and I intend on selling it to the highest bidder :D



3 cross-overs, which are plenty, and it preserves the flow of the track and keeps cars moving. There are no braking zones due to the intended smooth transitions. TO me, that's almost a best solution. There is also room for an interior (albeit rudimentary) figure 8 which can be incorporated into the lap. In fact, there are more solutions than we have time for.

Basically, for cross-overs to truly bring the pain, the cars need to be moving at a pace, and sometimes at an angle you can adjust to get the hardest hit possible.

The only thing lacking is that the tracks have no mechanism to keep the cars in places where you will hit someone 9 times out of 10. I recall the cross-over track in DD1 (track 2) and as the track was small (less than 25 second lap), the pack of 24 was condensed and you had plenty of crashes with a single crossing point.

WorldofBay

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brian your track has not 3 crossings, it in fact has none.

there would be one if inside direction is reverse to outside direction but like this it's just merging 2 lines and dividing again after short straight.
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BrianUK

brian your track has not 3 crossings, it in fact has none.

there would be one if inside direction is reverse to outside direction but like this it's just merging 2 lines and dividing again after short straight.


I didn't illustrate it very well, I'm a failure :( It's a rough drawing of a general idea, and things can easily be tightened up and adjusted, but the main aim was to simply preserve the speed of the cars. The lap involves running the inner oval, crossing onto the outer oval straight, then back in. The cars route themselves onto the outer oval, then tightening to use the short straight of the inner oval and back out to the run to the start/finish line. But, I'm not a track engineer, I'm an accountant, so what do I know? :D



@Purple: The tight circle was a little wider (from my memory) and wasn't quite at the end of the braking zone, and that's why it worked. I'm not against crossing 4, but the way it is illustrated puts it at a very slow section of track.

In the end, I would settle for the 8 we have now, but I'm not against an alternative configuration, not by any stretch of the imagination.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 09:19:21 PM by BrianUK »

Purple44

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But without crossing #4, then it not a GRID 1 style Figure 8 track that I would race for 3 hours straight on a Saturday night.  :P

With crossing #4, if you in second place and not to far behind the leader, as you come up to crossing #4, you will have a chance to T-bone the leader as he coming out of crossing #4 and push him back around the loop.  :D

And if I'm a wrecker, I can sit at the top of loop at crossing #4 and wait for the leader and block him as he tries get around the loop, so player in 2nd can catchup.  :D

When it comes to figure 8 tracks, I think each of us want different things Brian. Which is fine. Maybe Bugbear can give us figure 8 tracks that would please us both.  :)

Or we will have to wait until the modders get their tools to make custom tracks. The figure 8 track design you posted Brian, would be a custom track I would consider making. :)  It fit in with the double figure 8 track we got to talking about here:

Double eight


brian your track has not 3 crossings, it in fact has none.

there would be one if inside direction is reverse to outside direction but like this it's just merging 2 lines and dividing again after short straight.


Huh? The crossings are there. just need some barriers at the 2 top crossing to make sure the cars go where they should and some checkpoints. And Brian wants to keep the speed of the cars, so make the top 2 crossing like a chicane so cars would not lose  much speed, but would risk getting T-bone.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 09:23:22 PM by Purple44 »
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MamieNova

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there are 3 crossings indeed, but that would make the track way too big and the cars would be too disseminated to create a real wreckfest.

On the ovals topic, I tend to think the whole aspect has almost disappeared with build 7. The new oval track is too wide and you don't get a lot of chances to crash people in the wall. On the older oval, the cars are now too slow and there are way less spectacular crashes.

I'm also with brian on the subject of crossings, it just slows everything. However, a few more walls here and there on various tracks would be a nice addition for dirty racing.

I also second brian on the roads that are becoming too wide. Bugbear, you already made that mistake when converting Flatout 2 into UC (widening the track, removing obstacles, TOO EASY XD), please don't do it again.

Also ... Guys, stop asking for new tracks when all we need are new parts for vehicles!

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Purple44

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@Purple: The tight circle was a little wider (from my memory) and wasn't quite at the end of the braking zone, and that's why it worked. I'm not against crossing 4, but the way it is illustrated puts it at a very slow section of track.



Which loop you referring to Brian? The first loop ( the small one ) or the second loop ( the bigger loop )? The loop in my design would be like the small loop in GRID 1 figure 8 track.

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Purple44

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there are 3 crossings indeed, but that would make the track way too big and the cars would be too disseminated to create a real wreckfest.

On the ovals topic, I tend to think the whole aspect has almost disappeared with build 7. The new oval track is too wide and you don't get a lot of chances to crash people in the wall. On the older oval, the cars are now too slow and there are way less spectacular crashes.

I'm also with brian on the subject of crossings, it just slows everything. However, a few more walls here and there on various tracks would be a nice addition for dirty racing.

I also second brian on the roads that are becoming too wide. Bugbear, you already made that mistake when converting Flatout 2 into UC (widening the track, removing obstacles, TOO EASY XD), please don't do it again.

Also ... Guys, stop asking for new tracks when all we need are new parts for vehicles!

But this the time to ask, while Wreckfest is still in development.

I agree the new oval track to wide, prefer the older oval track for racing. But there are some that like the new oval. I like the new oval for doing team death matches thou! And it looking like the new oval could be turn into a pretty "exciting" figure 8 track!

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WorldofBay

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brian your track has not 3 crossings, it in fact has none.

there would be one if inside direction is reverse to outside direction but like this it's just merging 2 lines and dividing again after short straight.

Huh? The crossings are there. just need some barriers at the 2 top crossing to make sure the cars go where they should and some checkpoints. And Brian wants to keep the speed of the cars, so make the top 2 crossing like a chicane so cars would not lose  much speed, but would risk getting T-bone.

for a t-bone you need a minimum angle this track layout doesn't provide. the cars would distract each other and crash but mostly it will just be that a car driving the other path forces you to follow his path instead of t-boning you.
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Purple44

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brian your track has not 3 crossings, it in fact has none.

there would be one if inside direction is reverse to outside direction but like this it's just merging 2 lines and dividing again after short straight.

Huh? The crossings are there. just need some barriers at the 2 top crossing to make sure the cars go where they should and some checkpoints. And Brian wants to keep the speed of the cars, so make the top 2 crossing like a chicane so cars would not lose  much speed, but would risk getting T-bone.

for a t-bone you need a minimum angle this track layout doesn't provide. the cars would distract each other and crash but mostly it will just be that a car driving the other path forces you to follow his path instead of t-boning you.

The T-bone hits would still be there, wouldn't they? Just the angle would be different, regular T-bone >I, a T-bone on Brain track >/. Hit would still knock a car for a loop, right?


edit: I bookmark this thread into my custom track idea folder.  :)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 10:49:17 PM by Purple44 »
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BrianUK

Let's not get bogged down in pedantry, it was just a rough idea for keeping crosses and speed and would never be a final design, and it was planned on an already existing track.

@Purple: the first small loop. As is shown on the image you posted, the braking zone extends past the cross, where some speed is retained for a decent hit.

presuming ed

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brian your track has not 3 crossings, it in fact has none.

there would be one if inside direction is reverse to outside direction but like this it's just merging 2 lines and dividing again after short straight.


I didn't illustrate it very well, I'm a failure :( It's a rough drawing of a general idea, and things can easily be tightened up and adjusted, but the main aim was to simply preserve the speed of the cars. The lap involves running the inner oval, crossing onto the outer oval straight, then back in. The cars route themselves onto the outer oval, then tightening to use the short straight of the inner oval and back out to the run to the start/finish line. But, I'm not a track engineer, I'm an accountant, so what do I know? :D



@Purple: The tight circle was a little wider (from my memory) and wasn't quite at the end of the braking zone, and that's why it worked. I'm not against crossing 4, but the way it is illustrated puts it at a very slow section of track.

In the end, I would settle for the 8 we have now, but I'm not against an alternative configuration, not by any stretch of the imagination.


I had a train set that looked like that when I was a child.

I'd be a bit concerned racing on that track that I might collide with the 3:14 Trans Pennine Express from Blackpool.