Author Topic: Update 2015-12-18  (Read 11460 times)

Janne Suur-Näkki

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Slight complaint with the posted 0-60 times. The stats state cars can hit 0-60 in the range of 3.7 to 4 seconds but in reality they're closer to the 5.8 to 6 second range like a car of their performance should be getting. Transmission selection also plays a huge part in it but in most cases the Racing transmissions actually slow the cars down on the bottom end. I know in the older builds the cars actually used to hit 60 that quickly, but with the new physics model and performance downgrade I think it should be updated for the next hotfix/build/overhaul.

The acceleration times are calculated in a rudimentary fashion as opposed to being simulated, hence they don't take into consideration a lot of stuff.

We actually used to have 'fancy' acceleration simulation implemented as well but it's not been maintained and would need some work before being useful.
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Cornkid

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Slight complaint with the posted 0-60 times. The stats state cars can hit 0-60 in the range of 3.7 to 4 seconds but in reality they're closer to the 5.8 to 6 second range like a car of their performance should be getting. Transmission selection also plays a huge part in it but in most cases the Racing transmissions actually slow the cars down on the bottom end. I know in the older builds the cars actually used to hit 60 that quickly, but with the new physics model and performance downgrade I think it should be updated for the next hotfix/build/overhaul.

The acceleration times are calculated in a rudimentary fashion as opposed to being simulated, hence they don't take into consideration a lot of stuff.

We actually used to have 'fancy' acceleration simulation implemented as well but it's not been maintained and would need some work before being useful.

Did you also once have rudimentary "bounce" physics once, that you gave up on.

I ask this as new track does the same thing that many of us have been mentioning for years.

The lack of realistic landing spoils many a track, and it seems to never get resolved.

Janne Suur-Näkki

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Yeah we did, back then when we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. Remember that we're now talking about landings with forces that would realistically break the suspension. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing those, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 10:17:30 PM by Janne Suur-Näkki »
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Cornkid

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Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.

I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.

EDIT-
what about rather than "internally" deciding stuff, throw the community a build where they can decide if the broken suspension after a jump is too much or not, I just doubt its as simple as that if I'm honest.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 10:28:40 PM by Cornkid »

Facial_Burns

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Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.

I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.


You say you have the ''bounce'' issue when you use rally suspension? i have never had that issue when i use the right suspension
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Cornkid

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Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.

Here's the weird part, I get less bounce from road setup, than I do from standard, I dont get it from rally, but hate the lack of throwing a car into a corner from that.

I realise that you are never gonna keep everyone happy, but the fact that daystar bumped this thread on the "bouunce" factor made me want to comment on it, as for me its always been a bit iffy


I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.


You say you have the ''bounce'' issue when you use rally suspension? i have never had that issue when i use the right suspension

I find road setup to bounce less than standard, which cant be right.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 10:34:43 PM by Cornkid »

Facial_Burns

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?
My steam group where u can always find some friends on NCG
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/WRCserver
My NCG discord server
https://discord.gg/010U99akJwUY82yjk

Basic pc specs:
16gb ram
Amd athlon FX 8350 8 core
nividia gtx 970
gigabte motherboard
3tb hdd
windows 8.1 pro

Facial_Burns

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what about rather than "internally" deciding stuff, throw the community a build where they can decide if the broken suspension after a jump is too much or not, I just doubt its as simple as that if I'm honest.

The negativity that would stem from a build of bad suspension would be huge,
My steam group where u can always find some friends on NCG
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/WRCserver
My NCG discord server
https://discord.gg/010U99akJwUY82yjk

Basic pc specs:
16gb ram
Amd athlon FX 8350 8 core
nividia gtx 970
gigabte motherboard
3tb hdd
windows 8.1 pro

Cornkid

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  • Posts: 771

what about rather than "internally" deciding stuff, throw the community a build where they can decide if the broken suspension after a jump is too much or not, I just doubt its as simple as that if I'm honest.

The negativity that would stem from a build of bad suspension would be huge,


oh, and the negativity levels right now from involving community are at an all time high in you're opinion ?

Janne Suur-Näkki

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A rally car suspension is actually pretty stiff, however they feature a considerable amount of travel to help with landings.

One almost a fool-proof solution to eliminate half of the issue would be to disable the bottom collision for the cars, and while many games do use this trick to prevent bottoming out, in our game it doesn't yield a satisfactory solution since there's obviously a good chance of the bottom of the car being hit by something in collisions.
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Devin

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I've recently found rally tracks undrivable with race suspensions, which is absolutely realistic and fine. Some worked with standard and literally every single track now works with rally for me!

I think the best solution would be to dampen any contact the car makes with it's bottom to the ground or to dampen the suspensions much more after they've reached a certain point so that the car doesn't get low enough in the first place. Both could be tested and the first solution seems to sort of work on the car I'm working on, which actually allows me to race on DD2's Chalk Canyon at full speed without flipping the landings.
It can make a huge difference. But like I said, it already felt close to perfect to me after this update!

Purple44

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Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.


I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.



You say you have the ''bounce'' issue when you use rally suspension? i have never had that issue when i use the right suspension


Ya I use rally suspension with my muscle 4 car for any track that has jumps, like gravel and derby fig 8 tracks. And this work well for me. If I forget to change suspension, then I let off the gas or tap the brake so car don't land so hard with standard or racing suspension.

I wonder if other cars work as well with rally suspension?

Cronkid, you don't remember the bouncy suspension of the cars in Flatout 1 if you abuse your car to much!  ;)



If you were to have any chance of betting Dennis or Drunkfin on Bay City Cup, you better not have a bouncy suspension!

But the Flatout 1 cars did not act as violently as the Wreckfest cars off the jumps, if have the wrong suspension on.
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