Poll

Are part wear and repairing good features to have (for career)?

Yes! Keep the part wear and repairing features and improve them.
73 (79.3%)
Nope. They're unnecessary features just getting in the way.
19 (20.7%)

Total Members Voted: 91

Author Topic: POLL: Part Wear and Repairing  (Read 6569 times)

Janne Suur-Näkki

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It's now been a while since we've had part wear in the game, and the latest update made it possible to hire a crew for performing repairs. Like mentioned elsewhere, they are both experimental features, designed to give more depth to the game. It's our idea that both part wear and repairing would be only featured in forthcoming single-player career, not quick race (basically what we have now) or multiplayer. At this point what you're seeing and experiencing is pretty much a bare-bones implementation of the features, and if kept, both will be of course developed further and improved. For example, crew might have additional skills, a some sort of automatic repair, etc.

Now it's time for the million dollar question: in your opinion, should we keep part wear and repairing for career or scrap them? When answering keep in mind that career is not yet implemented.
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Orbotnive T

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I vote keep them because it will not be there anyway in the final multiplayer, right?

I don't really expect to play much single player career anyway unless the AI get a whole lot more interesting and varied to play with. So it won't hurt to have maintenance as an extra factor in career mode, where there's nobody to chat to in between races and all the time you want to take to fix the car up, but I'd rather go without for online multiplayer.

Or just make it an option to use it online or not eventually? So the players can decide?


EDIT: You may have noted in previous posts I'm not a big fan of the repair system but that's just due to the limited time inbetween online races and the frequency of needing to attend to it. It gets in the way of communication between races. Getting rid of it entirely after working on it so long doesn't seem like the right thing to do in my opinion and using it in single player sounds good to me. Just fine tune it a bit  :)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 10:49:45 AM by orbotnive »
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Janne Suur-Näkki

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Yes, the current idea is that part wear and repairing will not be featured in multiplayer even if the said features are kept.

And as for being optional, you can only have so much options. Too many options fragment the player base and can be time-consuming to implement (like in this case).
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Orbotnive T

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Yes well, I'm all for keeping it then  8)

Purple44

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Yes, the current idea is that part wear and repairing will not be featured in multiplayer even if the said features are kept.

And as for being optional, you can only have so much options. Too many options fragment the player base and can be time-consuming to implement (like in this case).

There was a lot of talk about doing career mode online as an option. So does this mean Bugbear and maybe the community has change their mind about doing career mode online?



Here a couple of post that Jori did, he had a hand in developing career mode before he left::


5) Unranked mode
As we're gunning for seamless career mode between online and offline playing (meaning you don't have two different careers but just the one, regardless of your online status), we won't open all parts online in ranked games. Unranked, though, now that's another matter! We're planning on creating a toggle that takes your server to Unranked status, meaning that all games you host won't affect anyone's career, XP or money. Instead, every item is available! This will ensure that casual gamers who just want to create a race for a LAN party don't have to worry about careers at all. Just host an Unranked game, and you can setup every car the way you want. This is also the mode you play with all mods, which ensures that mods are a thing of fun and not a way to exploit your way into success in your official career :)


Again, these plans are subject to change, so don't be surprised if we decide to go another way in the end :)

Geez, hey, whoa Nelly! You people are jumping into conclusions big time :)

First, single player:
Wreckfest won't have a campaign. That means no story, no story linked progression that opens you new tracks, challenges and cars, etc. There is no campaign. There is only persistent career mode.

Career Mode:
Wreckfest has a persistent career mode. There is no story, but there is open ended progression -- events, championships, races etc., and there's no limit how far you can go. You start the game with one car, you race to earn money and then you buy more cars to play with. That's pretty much it, when you boil it down.

Single Player vs. Multiplayer
Wreckfest has seamless SP/MP execution, and the two differ only very slightly. In SP, player has a selection of events to choose from, populated by bots on track. In MP, player has a selection of events to choose from, populated by other players. That's pretty much all the difference there is. Also, all progression made in one will carry over to the other, and nobody's forcing anyone to attend both. You find SP more appealing, you stick to that, and vice versa.
(There'll be a lot to do considering AI, as it needs to be quite cunning, else SP can be a bit predictable which MP will never be, thanks to human penchant for desperation and mischief. AI personalities, or, rather, behavior archetypes, are still being considered, as is asynchronous multiplayer and what it could be in Wreckfest.)

Tier System
Please, don't jump the gun here. To put it bluntly, you don't know enough about the tech tree or the tier system Wreckfest may or may not have to form an opinion on it, because we haven't told you what the current plans for those mechanics are. You're speculating wildly, and making assumptions on those speculations -- and then someone else takes those assumptions as facts :)
We are listening to your opinions on the subject, however, because the system's not been totally locked down yet, and is subject to change.


Janne, are the classifieds still in the plans for career mode? Warning, do not buy any used parts from Purple44. You have been warned!!

Jori, can you say if classifieds are still plan to be used in career mode? What ever form that takes.

They're very much in the plans :)

I voted yes for repair in career mode.
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The Very End

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I voted wrong sorry! I meant to press "yes" for part wear/repair in CAREER ONLY. If Singleplayer and multiplayer er left out of it I think so many people would be happy :D

BrianUK

Why is it not going to be included for MP? It seems to be pointless depth removing to me, and I know that as soon as part wear came along, the guys I race with all hoped it would be live degradation and give a twist to the races we have. I lost all my money in the update, and was left with 2 cars, and it has been immense fun having to win races (online) to just keep my car running for the next race. I think you'll be doing us an injustice by just throwing it out for multiplayer. Why not add a poll option to keep it in MP, is this a decision that has already been made?

Anyway, I like the idea of maintaining your car, but it does become busywork after a while, not unlike having to constantly repair your weapons in Fallout 3/NV. Part wear is definitely over the top right now, 30 laps of Tarmac 3 broke every part but my gearbox and diff, which equated to just 30 minutes driving. If part wear is slightly reduced, you could keep your car in good condition using the repair points you get (although I'm not sure how you'll repair tyres, unless they are just punctured, or your brake discs/pads). Alternatively keep the current deg rate, but make it have diminishing returns on repairing parts - an engine at 20% gets repaired by 40% using a single repair point, but a gearbox at 90% only gets repaired 2%. Easier to keep the car in a general running condition, but harder to get it fully repaired even if you have 15 repair points.

I voted to keep it as scrapping it now means that any attempts to streamline the system can't happen.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 11:54:18 AM by BrianUK »

vinno

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i think it is currently fine except for the need of tweaking.

like BrianUk said
Part wear is definitely over the top right now, 30 laps of Tarmac 3 broke every part but my gearbox and diff, which equated to just 30 minutes driving.

which seems really extreme.

I would say that full parts should be able to withstand a bit longer then that.
maybe around 45-55 min for a full part to  fully break.

the current repair system is interesting for sure.
I think I wasn't the only one that expected to be the repair a simple system that would transfer money into a more repaired part.
this implementation of the system is definitely refreshing, it only currently feels like the money you earn took a big hit for the experience.
this way it still encourages you to buy most of your parts of the market and only use repair in dire situations.

if this feature is continued i would like to see a confirm window when you use a point or have the change part and repair buttons further apart.
I have more then once pressed the repair button when meaning to press the change part button.


nickbrad

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I voted for keeping, (yet further refining,) the wear and repair feature for any upcoming career mode.

I, like many others, are struggling currently to keep the car maintained between races, with all my stocks of tyres now gone especially, I don't have enough time to get everything done and reply to any chat messages before the timer hits 0, due to some guys not caring about car condition, just wanting to race and hitting ready straight away. I think on single player, you have time to appreciate the system more. Current wear rates do need refining though, I'm burning through engines in 2 10 lap oval races.
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UraniumRailroad

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Keep it, if it's for singleplayer career only.
As long as it's not in multiplayer, I'm fine with it.

conso1727

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I also wrote it in the update thread, will propose it here again:
Rather than have a "repair points" system I'd use the crew as a way to repair parts over time. You hire it (for a monthly cost) and assign it to a car, at the start of each week the crew repairs a bit of the car's parts, so if you don't race with a car for some time the crew can fully (or at least as far as non permanent damage goes) repair it. Cars without a crew assigned won't have the parts repaired, so it's the player's task to find the parts to replace when the need arises.
As the crew levels up, the percentage of damage restored to the parts increases (and maybe the crew price too? Experienced personnel needs better payment)

I find it better than the repair points system first off because it reduces player navigation inside the menus, a crew means the car needs less mantaining, and also because it looks closer to the real world, to me. A mechanics crew doesn't need the pilot input to fix the parts.

Zeron

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Part wear is a big part of the game and I vote to keep it. As for multiplayer, it's only fair and easier if that's not implemented, this should only be a single-player feature. I would still like to change parts for multiplayer though.

Orbotnive T

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Why is it not going to be included for MP? It seems to be pointless depth removing to me, and I know that as soon as part wear came along, the guys I race with all hoped it would be live degradation and give a twist to the races we have.
I like the idea of an impact on performance during a race also but thinking practically how would that be achieved? Would degradation apply to damage sustained in collisions too? It'd make obvious sense to, but then wrecking racing wouldn't last very long if it did  :D

Anyway, I like the idea of maintaining your car, but it does become busywork after a while. Part wear is definitely over the top right now, 30 laps of Tarmac 3 broke every part but my gearbox and diff, which equated to just 30 minutes driving. If part wear is slightly reduced, you could keep your car in good condition using the repair points you get.

The effect on in-race performance may become so weak to be irrelevant if wear was also reduced unless you begin the race with near disposable parts to begin with. I agree parts wear too quick, unrealistically so, just mentioning for the sake of discussion.

Alternatively keep the current deg rate, but make it have diminishing returns on repairing parts - an engine at 20% gets repaired by 40% using a single repair point, but a gearbox at 90% only gets repaired 2%. Easier to keep the car in a general running condition, but harder to get it fully repaired even if you have 15 repair points.

I wonder how performance degradation would be handled for each individual car part and how they'd tie together as a whole though. It seems about 38%, or 62% worn parts is the cutoff where they become useless and need fixing or changing. So an engine near 'useless' should have a greater impact than near 'useless' suspension, maybe the bottom line useable percentages could be different for each part. Seems like a lot of variables to set up though.

Besides, these considerations - I have no idea how much work would be involved in bringing realtime wear to the game but I'd guess lots. It could prove to bring imbalance, but would be interesting if possible. Especially for multiple races with somewhat limited repairs between each heat, so decisions made on what to fix and when make an impact on the whole.

ireadtabloids

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I won't speak on behalf of the OLDr guys, but a few of us have been hoping that parts wear will be an option we can turn off on our servers.  Glad to know that this is the plan.  Offline I don't mind it at all.  Its a fun progression element as I level up my crew and work towards epic selections of parts.
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RickyB

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Just some thoughts on this. I'm neither against it nor am I a big friend of it.
The only question I ask myself is - Could this feature discourage people from playing the career mode?
If it turns into a clickfest, it probably could. I wouldn't want that as a game developer... and Bugbear is aware of that.
And as for the game turning into a clickfest, that was actually our main concern with the repair system too and it's definitely something that we want to avoid as well. I'm just not sure if adding a simple repair all button is a magic bullet, though. Wouldn't that render the whole repair system more or less superfluous? If we'd remove the repair system we'd have to come up with other ideas to give the game more depth and some motivation for the meta game, but of course we already have some ideas.

Isn't it already superfluous? Is it that much difference if you click 7 times or one time? Right now it feels as thrilling as doing accounting. As soon as my crew has 6 or 7 repair points I can repair almost everything without ever buying anything new. (As long as you don't do endurance races with 20+ laps or something. I kind of like the repair function in comparison to the market, because it's faster than changing,buying and selling parts) It is even kind of interesting to see which parts suffered after each race and how much they wore out. Still doesn't add any real betterment in gameplay to me. If that's the main feature of the career mode, I can't say that it's a real motivation for me.
..., should we keep part wear and repairing for career or scrap them? When answering keep in mind that career is not yet implemented.

Feels like we vote on something, that we have no idea of how it's going to be... hard to make a decision based on something you don't know ;-)

If I remember correctly, a lot of people were not happy with part wear in general - those people are probably not in favor of a career mode that features exactly that.
As a developer I'd probably have to ask myself - what would motivate players to play the career mode? Part wear and repair? or maybe something else..(?) 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 04:37:38 PM by RickyBøbby »