Poll

Are part wear and repairing good features to have (for career)?

Yes! Keep the part wear and repairing features and improve them.
75 (78.1%)
Nope. They're unnecessary features just getting in the way.
21 (21.9%)

Total Members Voted: 95

Author Topic: POLL: Part Wear and Repairing  (Read 7644 times)

Orbotnive T

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I've said this couple of times and this topic seems to be a good one to say it again.

- In race part wear should be implemented
- Damage taken in race should reflect somewhat in the after race part wear

I wonder if you have ideas of how, if it's a feasible option to include anyway, that could be done? I mentioned it in post 12.

It will take high lap races to notice the internal part wear in game in pure racing, and in wrecking racing it might become a drag fast that you were spun on the first corner, can't get back into forward motion from others who were spun, your car is then underperforming due to real time damage, then the first placers come back round and smash you out the way also and DNF you.

Then at the end of the race and fixing time there's so much wrong that it's quicker and easier to just buy another car instead.
 Just my thoughts on the difficulty of keeping real time damage fun while including damage taken in race.

St. Jimmy

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  • Posts: 1184

I've said this couple of times and this topic seems to be a good one to say it again.

- In race part wear should be implemented
- Damage taken in race should reflect somewhat in the after race part wear

I wonder if you have ideas of how, if it's a feasible option to include anyway, that could be done? I mentioned it in post 12.

It will take high lap races to notice the internal part wear in game in pure racing, and in wrecking racing it might become a drag fast that you were spun on the first corner, can't get back into forward motion from others who were spun, your car is then underperforming due to real time damage, then the first placers come back round and smash you out the way also and DNF you.

Then at the end of the race and fixing time there's so much wrong that it's quicker and easier to just buy another car instead.
 Just my thoughts on the difficulty of keeping real time damage fun while including damage taken in race.

The damage doesn't need to be too extreme or realistic. Impact only should wear the parts except tires and maybe brakes should wear when using/driving. Though some hardcore damage mode would be cool because there are a lot of people that are looking for something like Jokkis racing. Currently when the parts wear they are still pretty OK until they're very heavily damaged. Usually these kind of races don't run more than 5 laps. Even if you DNF it doesn't mean that everything or even any part needs to be at 0% health.

Currently it doesn't really take too much time to repair and replace parts. At least I can do it under one minute easily. When the menu and stuff gets better it shouldn't be too time consuming. People are way too impatience if they can't wait for a next race a minute or two. And that's why there will be the "quick race" type of modes that BugBear mentioned.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 11:25:22 PM by St. Jimmy »
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HyperXHyperX

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Prologue (Skip if you don't like reading)

Okay, first of all, I believe that part degradation can be a nice gameplay element if done right. It's good to hear that it'll be removed from multiplayer entirely, as it turns out to be a lot of tedious work to click on all the things during the short time inbetween races. A 'repair most worn' button would save a lot of time, but in single player, I definitely see it being an integral part of the 'survival' and 'scavenge' aspects of the game. You'd fear not to lose too often, or else you'd have to race with broken/missing/inferior parts, sell something, or even use a worse car. A true 'Game Over' would be kind of harsh, but also fair if it required you to lose excessively. You wouldn't believe how often I used the task manager in order to avoid getting caught by the police in the original Most Wanted... ;P


Part Differentiation

I believe that certain parts should degrade way slower. For instance, the suspension shouldn't suffer too much from being driven on even ground, like the ovals. Only heavy abuse like jumps or collisions should damage it reasonably fast. Of course, a rally suspension should be able to last significantly longer, especially in extreme conditions. Another thing is that tyres and brakes cannot be repaired; they should simply wear out.

Part Breaking

This is obvious, but once entering the 'red zone', parts should be able to simply break: The closer it gets to 0, the more likely a part is to break. In addition, the damage sustained should also limit the percentage a part can be repaired over time. This would mean that despite always repairing the engine, at some point it's wiser to find a replacement. A very rough idea would be that per 100% damage, a certain part can only be repaired up to 90%. This would make it more believable, as well as keep you on the lookout for a cheap spare.

Wear Attributes

They should be revisited in order to make the game less 'grindy' and less of a 'clickfest'. I'd prefer parts having a much longer lifetime, yet degrading in more severe ways. For instance, upon being damaged heavily, a transmission would have non-funtional gears, more delay and be more likely to miss shift. Or an engine in agony might die (=turn off temporarily) due to a big collision and run very rough in general. A 'repair most damaged' button would be a slick and elegant solution to manage a few cars at once and save time and nerves for the players.


The Crew and Progression (TL;DR at the end!)

I know these are separate issues, but I had to summarise them because of the points I'm trying to make. At this moment, this is taken straight out of an RPG. You get more XP and more repair points once you've reached the next level. I believe this should be streamlined much more in order to prevent excessive grinding and then having it too easy. That was an actual problem in 'The Crew' (punny title, ain't it? ;P).

To explain it more in detail, here is what I envisioned for the single-player campaign: You start out with a very old and partially broken banger from your grandma and thousand bucks from your grandpa, both birthday presents. Little did they know, as you were about to construct a deathmachine!

At the beginning, you start out on the two local tracks for folk racing and some kind of improvised areal for derbies. You can't really repair your car well, being a one-man crew, but the scrapyard around the corner supplies you with worn parts for, or nearly for, free. Instead of the current crew XP/ repair points system progression, you have more of a scripted one, were key events will progress you through your 'career'.
As you gain skill, win races, cash and popularity, you decide to venture into previously unknown terrain, meaning you unlock more tracks, cars, vendors, parts and events abroad, where the stakes are higher, cars are faster and the opposition is tougher. But there you'll also find more money and, perhaps, the means to get your own crew.

Well, we all know how it goes from then on, the difficulty increases, you participate in more and more important events until you have everything unlocked. Your ultimate goal is to become the WBRDDC (World Banger Racing and Demolition Derby Champion), which will be the hardest event where you need to compete and win in multiple heats and races plus derbies until you've won the world cup of that.
But you're free to continue after that and there will always be other leagues and events in the form of sidemissions available as well. You might also wanna defend your title in the next cup of the WBRDDC!

TL;DR: More of a campaign with partially scripted progression/ unlocks and an open end, rather than a rogue-like, grindy RPG style racer with a fully open world from the start.

Purple44

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Good post HyperXHyperX.
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HyperXHyperX

  • Posts: 118
Good post HyperXHyperX.

Being assured by the single, most helpful and friendly guy in the community, hell every community I've ever been part of, that my post isn't bad is a big compliment for me. Thank you, Purple44!

Also, do you ever get upset? I've never ever noticed the slightest sign of anger in any of your comments. You must be as cool as Buddha.

Daystar

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I think Bugbear should hire you HyperXHyperX!                                                                                                                                                            .

I as well very much like your ideas! and yes that is a compliment as well
very good post indeed.


MamieNova

  • Posts: 385
posted elsewhere, but it's probably better here.


Rare parts would be nice (and a real use for the repair system ?)

In a general way, I feel like there is not enough room to customise the performance to our taste.
You guys could quickly code a "random" parts generator; example of engine variables : max rpm, torque, rpm max torque, hp, rpm max hp, displacement (more of a cosmetic variable here but still) and let it produce a good bunch of those to throw in the game easily.
Do that for all parts and the crazy tuners among us will have a LOT of combinations to play with =)
I've tried to experiment with lesser parts and in some cases, it's viable: I have found that a 327ci A1 worked pretty well for me on mixed 1, however, the power loss was a bit too much and the lap times , while very consistent, would not really be on par with a lucky 350ci lap.

Right now, the 350ci has both a higher max rpm AND more torque/HP than the 327ci. If the 327 RPMed to 7000, it would get a higher top speed than the 350ci using the same gearbox, I feel that this would be a good option on a track like tarmac 2.
Not to mention it would even change shifting points on many tracks.
On a multiplayer side, it would make for very different styles getting at each other even when using the same car.

I'm not sure if it could be easily added or not (depending on how the suspension/tyre physics are implemented), but front/rear independent settings/parts for stuff like suspension, tyres or brakes could open additional possibilities.

Also, rear end gearing =D
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Purple44

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Good post HyperXHyperX.


Being assured by the single, most helpful and friendly guy in the community, hell every community I've ever been part of, that my post isn't bad is a big compliment for me. Thank you, Purple44!

Also, do you ever get upset? I've never ever noticed the slightest sign of anger in any of your comments. You must be as cool as Buddha.


Oh I get upset a some the things I have seen posted in the forums I visit, especially over some the things said about Bugbear over at the Steam Wreckfest forum. GRRR But I have seen to many flame wars in my many years surfing the net. I don't want to get into the middle of them. In real life, I'm a quiet guy and if get angry, I usually keep my anger inside and turn and walk away. That why I don't do much work on cars ( I'm lucky I got a brother that will work on cars  :) ) and I have said some choice words to my computers!  ;)

But over at the Steam forum, I do correct the record when some posters post some falsehoods about Wreckfest or Bugbear.

I'm no wordsmith, English was my worse subject in school. give me some Math. You did a good job of posting your ideas and there good ideas.  :D

I save my anger for the publishers!!!  >:( >:(  Like Strategy First that screwed over the Flatout community ( do a Google search for -   Strategy First Purple44   - ) And Codemasters, after doing a great job with GRID 1 ( has online text chat ), our calls to get text chat put into GRID 2 and then GRID Autosport fell on deaf ears, I'm done with Codemasters! I don't visit their forums no more.  >:(

And Microsoft Game for Windows Live back in 2010! GRRRRRRRRRRRR 

Buyer beware, GFWL+Codemasters+online+unsupported country=:(

OHH, there was that moderator over at Codemasters FUEL forum.  >:( I got very piss off at him! Some the guys here may remember that.

Going off topic, I better shut up.   :P
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Stuntman Mike

  • Posts: 25
Oh I get upset a some the things I have seen posted in the forums I visit, especially over some the things said about Bugbear over at the Steam Wreckfest forum. GRRR

This... I cannot agree more. The Steam community is disguting about Wreckfest. This game definitely doesn't deserve so much hatred. It makes me really angry and I need to blast something (thanks to video games, I can do this when I feel the need to).

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And Microsoft Game for Windows Live back in 2010! GRRRRRRRRRRRR

OMG! What are you doing in my mind?! Get away from there :o I never liked M$ in their whole history, but when Rockstar signed with them for GTA IV and once I've seen the result (can't save without connecting to this shit), I sometimes considered learning how to make bombs for Silicon Valley... though I'm a pacific guy overall (hey NSA, just kidding ok?). Maybe the most useless gaming service ever and it did a lot more harm than good (which is not surprising from this company, I must confess). Besides, what a pathetic name!

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Going off topic, I better shut up.   :P

Mmh... so will I.

Ohh, and by the way: nice post HyperXHyperX! I'm also all for an optional merciless damaging mode in Wreckfest (I said optional, enough hatred, don't shoot yourself in the foot Bugbear ;)).
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

rhamm

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Yes, the current idea is that part wear and repairing will not be featured in multiplayer even if the said features are kept.

And as for being optional, you can only have so much options. Too many options fragment the player base and can be time-consuming to implement (like in this case).

Yeah, QA can really suck with too many options to test, then people wonder why stuff has so many bugs.
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HyperXHyperX

  • Posts: 118
Thanks y'all! I finally found time to browse these forums again.
do a Google search for -   Strategy First Purple44   - )

It appears to be buried. Or perhaps Google's saved preference of mine include it after MILFs.... I mean various other discussion boards and forums.

You will aways remain as the stoic one to me.

I think Bugbear should hire you HyperXHyperX!

They already have the guy making 'em coffee if I'm not mistaken.

On a more serious note, I'm entirely convinced that they do possess a very similar concept. I still didn't tackle the probably most difficult to balance aspect of the game, but even though it is a part of the part wear discussion, I believe it belongs into its separate thread. If I find an at least somewhat reasonable solution to that, I will make post it under 'Game Design'. It will be more of an argumentation of multiple ways leading to the very same path, anyways.

I'm also all for an optional merciless damaging mode in Wreckfest (I said optional, enough hatred, don't shoot yourself in the foot Bugbear ;)).

I've thought about what can make the game harder, and there are a few options which could be set independently:

1. AI driving skill.
An obvious one, ranging from 'Monkey on KB' to 'Schumacher on wheel'.

2. AI aggression.
Logical step in a full contact racing/ derby game. If you're asking yourself what it would do in a derby; you'd be more likely to get hit by others.

3. Money/ part wear system.
Because essentially, they are tied together. If you like a challenge on the track, but prefer not to spend too much time repairing or replacing, you may turn it down.

4. Rubberbanding.
Some hate it, some find it ok. I prefer a very slight dose of it so I'm not completely lost after getting spun out at the start in a 2 lap race.

5. Limited/ disabled restarts of an event.
The true 'hardcore' mode; unforgiving as hell and disabled by default. Closely related to resets as well.

6. Assists?
Well, probably better to simply include it in a different menu altogether, even if they do affect the overall challenge.


Of course, there will be presets, such as Very Easy, Easy, Medium etc. These would be just advanced options for those that want to finetune their experience (I like my opponents dumb and angry). And sorry for going Off-Topic.

Stuntman Mike

  • Posts: 25
I've thought about what can make the game harder, and there are a few options which could be set independently:

1. AI driving skill.
An obvious one, ranging from 'Monkey on KB' to 'Schumacher on wheel'.

They're not that bad overall, it's reasonably hard to catch up with a 1st AI (safe from the mayhem behind it) when it's like 200 meters in front of you. Now, for sure, they have irrational difficulties to handle some turns or jumps on some circuits (I already learned to make use of it). Granted it's fun to see many of them completely miss a jump, but it's too much. It feels like you're the only experienced racer in the crowd.

Overall, they could be better anyway. I wish for some real challenging AIs.

Also adding some unpredictable behavior is always one of the best addition to any AI to make them feel like humans.

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2. AI aggression.
Logical step in a full contact racing/ derby game. If you're asking yourself what it would do in a derby; you'd be more likely to get hit by others.

AIs are not agressive at all actually (except in demolition derby of course). They never try to make me spin, even if I give them a nice opportunity to do so. When it happens, it's looks more like a hazardous event than a deliberate act.

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3. Money/ part wear system.
Because essentially, they are tied together. If you like a challenge on the track, but prefer not to spend too much time repairing or replacing, you may turn it down.

My point is that we should be able to completely turn it down as an option. Sometimes, you just want to have fun racing over and over, period. And it's easy to implement.

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4. Rubberbanding.
Some hate it, some find it ok. I prefer a very slight dose of it so I'm not completely lost after getting spun out at the start in a 2 lap race.

I'm ok with it. Not only does it add some variety to graphics, but it's a so common thing in racing that it somehow contributes to immersion.

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5. Limited/ disabled restarts of an event.
The true 'hardcore' mode; unforgiving as hell and disabled by default. Closely related to resets as well.

I remember Colin McRae Rally was harsh about it. You could still tamper in menus by reloading your profile, but it was annoying enough to cheat like this that it was not too hardcore-killing overall.

As for the reset, I highly wish it to be disabled for AIs. Devs did a good job to hide it from player while racing, still it's a shame knowing that the AI uses it. Besides, in replays, resets are so obvious that it completely spoils the realism when it happens (a lot on Figure 8 ). I personnaly never use reset, even on multiplayer when it's on. I don't care if I was 1st at 9/10 laps... when I'm out, I'm out. That's hardcore spirit.

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6. Assists?
Well, probably better to simply include it in a different menu altogether, even if they do affect the overall challenge.

Well, as long as it's something available IRL, I don't care much about it. ABS, traction and stability controls are real things. I wouldn't use them in a GT racing game if I try to achieve the best lap possible, but derby is something completely different to me (it's more about staying alive than about speed). I'm usually on "half" for the 3 settings.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 03:31:23 AM by Stuntman Mike »
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.

RickyB

  • Posts: 565
Total Members Voted: 50 ... that's sad... and probably not representative. Have players that wanted a more fun and less simulator game turned their backs on WF ??? Earlier polls had 540, 564, 665, 1026 votes. ok, it's just been one week... but still...


« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 05:52:54 PM by RickyBøbby »

Purple44

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Total Members Voted: 50 ... that's sad... and probably not representative. Have players that wanted a more fun and less simulator game turned their backs on WF ??? Earlier polls had 540, 564, 665, 1026 votes. ok, it's just been one week... but still...

Ya the Bugbear forum not as lively as it was back in 2014.
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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Orbotnive T

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Total Members Voted: 50 ... that's sad... and probably not representative. Have players that wanted a more fun and less simulator game turned their backs on WF ??? Earlier polls had 540, 564, 665, 1026 votes. ok, it's just been one week... but still...

Ya the Bugbear forum not as lively as it was back in 2014.

Yeah, even though I voted for the repairs I still want a lively game. I'm afraid it's going too far toward realism and racing to be honest. I've had a hell of a lot of fun on it though way more than my moneys worth, so whatever happens I don't think I ought to complain. But would like to see some more troublesome tracks than plain racing just the same. Don't forget what the name was, "It's called Wreckfest" lol