Author Topic: Hotfix 2016-03-17  (Read 9650 times)

Purple44

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The problem is that the mud is too slippery to build up any speed, and the middle is completely useless because it's so bumpy. So you end up with slow hits, and if anybody is lucky, maybe 2 takedowns by the end of an 8-minute deathmatch. Additionally, the AI are hardly affected by the slipperyness.

that problem is on your side then. middle is not bumpy at all and spinning out happens rarely and expectedly to me, lot less than in flatout 1 on professional handling on second arena (the bumpy mud one). i was driving am1 with standard sus and locked diff, just the parts it already had. and i'm driving on keyboard. ended 10 minutes against AI first with 7:4 at first try after long abscense from this game.

for the first time in this game i consider mudpit a good derby arena now. it still is too big, especially with slippery surface, but now it feels good. could maybe be even more slippery.

I have done deathmatches online with Mud pit many times. So I just gave the mud pit a go with my usually car, the Muscle 4 with standard parts and mud pit definitely more slippery and harder to get up too ramming speed with my DFGT wheel and no assists.

Then I put the rally tires on, made big difference. Mud still on the slippery side, which it should be, but I could still get going and get some speed on. Mud pit with rally tires feels right to me. I would not want Bugbear to change it. :)

Edit: This test was done with a B class brand new Mus 4 ( all standard parts ). Car did not have any racing parts to make it a A class car. Would a powerful A class car be spinning the tires more than a B class car?

I would like to check this out, but don't have the time right now. Maybe tonight I can. Could a B class car be the better car in a mud pit?

Just got done testing a Muscle 4 - A class car with rally tires and then bought a new B class Muscle 4 and put rally tires on.

The A class ( 206 ) car took much longer to get speed up into the 40+ MPH. Switch to the B class ( 155 ) and it was much easier to get up to 40+ MPH ramming speed.

If looking for a realistic mud derby, look like Bugbear getting close. Where Mo? What he think?

Now I did not pay much attention to the AI to see if they were having much trouble with the mud. But out of 4 last man standing derbys I just did, I won 3 of them against the AI. Last one I went out early.
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WorldofBay

  • Posts: 750
the problem there is you don't see what part AI uses. i had a yellow american4 that had a lot of trouble, spun a lot and all and on the other side there were stable ones. is AI now using all parts randomly?
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hande11

  • Posts: 203
For (too) slippery mud pit.. If one is not using pedals, or maybe even with pedals: how would Accelerator Sensitivity -setting play out? Put this setting to more of a plus side, it will give you "pedal to the metal" -effect (rear tires spinning fast without grip). If you put it to minus side, it will gently increase the gas and keep better grip in slippery mud?

Have to try this track out too :)
i5 2500K, 8GB RAMDDR3 1600, Win7 64-bit
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Elwood: "Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration.. don't fail me now!"

sam223

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For (too) slippery mud pit.. If one is not using pedals, or maybe even with pedals: how would Accelerator Sensitivity -setting play out? Put this setting to more of a plus side, it will give you "pedal to the metal" -effect (rear tires spinning fast without grip). If you put it to minus side, it will gently increase the gas and keep better grip in slippery mud?

Have to try this track out too :)
It doesn't work like that. Positive is fast at the start of depress,smoother at the end of depress,similar to a short pedal height.Negative is the opposite,which would give a feeling similar to a worn clutch,slow pickup speed at the start. It wouldn't give you more grip,just more control over the pedal if you were driving in heavy boots for example.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2016, 11:50:58 PM by sam223 »
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Mopower

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The mudpit still seeems like you have a lot of traction within the first 3-4 mph, and then once you gain car speed you have very little. The lawn mower derby is just about right now, I like the handling on that track for a dirty track.

Mudpit should be similar, but a little more slip.
i like to honk to make my worse air
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hande11

  • Posts: 203
For (too) slippery mud pit.. If one is not using pedals, or maybe even with pedals: how would Accelerator Sensitivity -setting play out? Put this setting to more of a plus side, it will give you "pedal to the metal" -effect (rear tires spinning fast without grip). If you put it to minus side, it will gently increase the gas and keep better grip in slippery mud?

Have to try this track out too :)
It doesn't work like that. Positive is fast at the start of depress,smoother at the end of depress,similar to a short pedal height.Negative is the opposite,which would give a feeling similar to a worn clutch,slow pickup speed at the start. It wouldn't give you more grip,just more control over the pedal if you were driving in heavy boots for example.
Ah true, it's curved response. I stand corrected. Was thinking a scenario, that you are stopped or moving slow speed in slippery mud and apply throttle, it could cause rear tires to spin too fast and slip instantly if you have this setting too much on positive side. Negative setting could give less tire spinning in the beginning and help you pick up some speed first.. This setting did not have noticeable effect *with keyboard* when i tested AM1 (standard tires), rear tires are spinning on both end of the setting, especially when you try to get car moving from zero speed upwards. And that should happen often, so just an observation. I like slippery surfaces a lot, more the driving challenge, the better.
When you get moving in certain speed, say over 40 mph, mudpit caused spinning with very slight turning attempts. But have to say, here keyboard is showing weakness. It's too all-on / all-off on this surface. Also very wet and thick mud, has some randomness in it, that should suprise driver now and then, so all sorts of increased spinning suprises in wet mud are ok in my books.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 10:51:04 AM by hande11 »
i5 2500K, 8GB RAMDDR3 1600, Win7 64-bit
GTX 560 DCII TOP, 1GB GDDR5, Controller: keyboard (current generic powersliding biased test setup)
Elwood: "Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration.. don't fail me now!"

sam223

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For (too) slippery mud pit.. If one is not using pedals, or maybe even with pedals: how would Accelerator Sensitivity -setting play out? Put this setting to more of a plus side, it will give you "pedal to the metal" -effect (rear tires spinning fast without grip). If you put it to minus side, it will gently increase the gas and keep better grip in slippery mud?

Have to try this track out too :)
It doesn't work like that. Positive is fast at the start of depress,smoother at the end of depress,similar to a short pedal height.Negative is the opposite,which would give a feeling similar to a worn clutch,slow pickup speed at the start. It wouldn't give you more grip,just more control over the pedal if you were driving in heavy boots for example.
Ah true, it's curved response. I stand corrected. Was thinking a scenario, that you are stopped or moving slow speed in slippery mud and apply throttle, it could cause rear tires to spin too fast and slip instantly if you have this setting too much on positive side. Negative setting could give less tire spinning in the beginning and help you pick up some speed first.. This setting did not have noticeable effect *with keyboard* when i tested AM1 (standard tires), rear tires are spinning on both end of the setting, especially when you try to get car moving from zero speed upwards. And that should happen often, so just an observation. I like slippery surfaces a lot, more the driving challenge, the better.
When you get moving in certain speed, say over 40 mph, mudpit caused spinning with very slight turning attempts. But have to say, here keyboard is showing weakness. It's too all-on / all-off on this surface. Also very wet and thick mud, has some randomness in it, that should suprise driver now and then, so all sorts of increased spinning suprises in wet mud are ok in my books.

Thats what i thought you were trying to achieve. Its one of the reasons why keyboard inputs should probably be discredited from handling/physics feedback imo. You fix something for keyboard players,you dumb it down for everyone else  (unless you specifically design aids for keyboard players aswell). Try a longer final gear ratio on the top end engines (high revs = most torque),or use the 4 speed box rather than 6 speed,or set off in 2nd gear all the time. For the v8s you are probably always going to be hindered due to high torque at low revs.

As mopower said though,its pretty easy to set off,you just start to lose grip once the revs/speed get up. So maybe just go from 2nd to 5th and then blip the throttle?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 01:10:45 PM by sam223 »
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hande11

  • Posts: 203
For (too) slippery mud pit.. If one is not using pedals, or maybe even with pedals: how would Accelerator Sensitivity -setting play out? Put this setting to more of a plus side, it will give you "pedal to the metal" -effect (rear tires spinning fast without grip). If you put it to minus side, it will gently increase the gas and keep better grip in slippery mud?

Have to try this track out too :)
It doesn't work like that. Positive is fast at the start of depress,smoother at the end of depress,similar to a short pedal height.Negative is the opposite,which would give a feeling similar to a worn clutch,slow pickup speed at the start. It wouldn't give you more grip,just more control over the pedal if you were driving in heavy boots for example.
Ah true, it's curved response. I stand corrected. Was thinking a scenario, that you are stopped or moving slow speed in slippery mud and apply throttle, it could cause rear tires to spin too fast and slip instantly if you have this setting too much on positive side. Negative setting could give less tire spinning in the beginning and help you pick up some speed first.. This setting did not have noticeable effect *with keyboard* when i tested AM1 (standard tires), rear tires are spinning on both end of the setting, especially when you try to get car moving from zero speed upwards. And that should happen often, so just an observation. I like slippery surfaces a lot, more the driving challenge, the better.
When you get moving in certain speed, say over 40 mph, mudpit caused spinning with very slight turning attempts. But have to say, here keyboard is showing weakness. It's too all-on / all-off on this surface. Also very wet and thick mud, has some randomness in it, that should suprise driver now and then, so all sorts of increased spinning suprises in wet mud are ok in my books.

Thats what i thought you were trying to achieve. Its one of the reasons why keyboard inputs should probably be discredited from handling/physics feedback imo. You fix something for keyboard players,you dumb it down for everyone else  (unless you specifically design aids for keyboard players aswell). Try a longer final gear ratio on the top end engines (high revs = most torque),or use the 4 speed box rather than 6 speed,or set off in 2nd gear all the time. For the v8s you are probably always going to be hindered due to high torque at low revs.

As mopower said though,its pretty easy to set off,you just start to lose grip once the revs/speed get up. So maybe just go from 2nd to 5th and then blip the throttle?
Oh yes, true, using gearing like you said must be best way to improve mudpit driving, good advice! I only used automatic gearing to test it. Ofc i have to stongly disagree as kb player for discrediting kb handling part, but there could be more wheel users on die hard players, having most playing hours. So even ok to prioritize Wheel handling efforts over keyboard, if necessary. But maybe both can be supported, i think BB indicated, they tweak separately all controllers, hope it's reality. Approx. 30% for poll seemed to use kb, not sure about actual numbers. But agree with you that WF is best experienced with wheel as are all not-fully-arcade driving games (i'm dreaming to have wheel, once i solve small flat + furniture-where-to-attach wheel problem.. playing Wreckfest with media-center pc currently).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 02:11:39 PM by hande11 »
i5 2500K, 8GB RAMDDR3 1600, Win7 64-bit
GTX 560 DCII TOP, 1GB GDDR5, Controller: keyboard (current generic powersliding biased test setup)
Elwood: "Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration.. don't fail me now!"

sam223

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^ The reasoning for my comment is that they have to test it for all inputs and then hinder each input with hidden aids (like the slow steering speed seen on pads but not on keyboards). And you end up with feedback that driving is crap on a certain input,then tweak for that input and make it bad for other inputs.

Its better imo to setup the game for wheels (realistic input) and not what 30% are using (keyboards). Then add aids which can be tweaked by the players so you can use any input. If we use steering for example. Pads and keyboards and hindered by lack of control over degrees of rotation vs the wheel. Its a lot of testing to test all inputs,when instead you could implement a maximum degrees of lock in the options instead which could be used by all inputs.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 02:12:30 PM by sam223 »
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hande11

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Yes, i kind of agree with you. Edited my previous message already a bit when having second thought. I'm ok as keyboard player for wheel controllers to have most attention, since these gamers probably have most die-hard hours with the game. Have to admit, i'm not so deep understanding controller integration currently with driving physics. If tweaking is separate and very isolated, then why not to pre-fine tune each major controller type by BB, but if tweaking keyboard will overlap to wheel handling and vice versa, i understand dilemma this causes. It would be nice if driving physics would be universal, and only controller integration can be edited and separated from it, but this could not be case, since handling for wheels apparently changed lately.  Another area is competitive racing and whether you can powerslide faster track than not (as powersliding should give slower lap times).

p.s. and it sure is frustrating, if handling is changing every other build and getting steps back, so understanding dissatisfaction getting base level handling changed  constantly. Some suggested to going back to couple of builds back to fix wheel handling, i think we would need BB guy to comment on that here and change history..
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 02:40:27 PM by hande11 »
i5 2500K, 8GB RAMDDR3 1600, Win7 64-bit
GTX 560 DCII TOP, 1GB GDDR5, Controller: keyboard (current generic powersliding biased test setup)
Elwood: "Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration.. don't fail me now!"

Finsku

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There's still areas on finish line area where's invisible objects where cars could hit and which breaks cars a little bit. Example Tarmac 1, Sandpit (can't remember which, longer faster and with 2 dif. layouts) has car breaking spots.  :(

freddy

  • Posts: 20
I kinda like this build now:

- repair all button better, just put it in lobby
- ability to switch manually in automatic is good, although i drive manual now  >:(
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findRED

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While I do enjoy the hotfix, It still leaves some bugs and annoyances untouched.

First and Foremost the Pad Bug!
This little thing is starting to really bug me (no pun intended), so if no one else has done it, I will post it on the bug section sometime in the next 7 days or so. (it takes time to gather the data because real life stuff comes first)  And so you know, it is more than just cameras changing in hard cornering situations, it is also (in some cases) an instant disconnect-reconnect with the controller (and yes the disconnect windows sound plays every time it happens).

With the biggest grip out of the way.... comes the second biggest grip which is game-breaking!  I name it the "feel no input bug"
I am not sure if it is still the "jump into cement" bug purple has posted before, or a new one, but now I cannot race on any remotely hilly track do to an effect much like the cement one purple mentioned is still in the build!
EDIT:  Does NOT seem to be related to the cement bug.

SNIP

But going off the high jump on gravel track, I'm seeing the same problem I had with Feb Build #10 and the Muscle 4 car having cement in the truck. Same thing happening with the Asian 1 car. This bug not fix yet.  :(




Maybe it is related to using a pad instead (I don't think it is IT IS), but any time I lose tire contact (air from jumps and bumps mainly, sometimes from ai hits) It acts like I have stopped inputs with my pad! (I have yet to test with keyboard... Have tested with keyboard, is only a pad issue.)  This one is slightly more complicated to explain without a video or picture, but it kills the fun and overall driving feel!  It's terrible especially on the Gravel track!

Relating to both of the bugs, I tried a lawnmower derby on the lawnmower derby track....  Anytime I would go over the center hill with enough speed to catch the slightest of air, I would experience the "feel no input bug"!  On top of that, I also noticed a substantial increase in the frequency of my pad disconnect sounds relating to the pad bug whenever I was turning!
I know I should post this one as well in the bug section if it is not already, but at this point in development these two bugs are all that's holding back an amazing game imho!  If it weren't for the frustration I get from these two bugs, I would be all over the forums screaming about how awesome this update is!

And for all the positives I have given previously for this build, it only takes 2 annoying bugs to wreck an amazing game.
EDIT:  The two bugs are both pad bugs, and I use almost exclusively a pad!  I will be posting both in a single bug report if I cannot fix them using the usual steps...

Now, since I don't want to make anymore new threads and posts tonite, I must type out just a few last words about a needed fixing/adjustment....

The 5 speed transmission for American 3 (The Olds 442 look-alike):
(*disclaimer, all ratios assume "raito:1" so an example:  1.10:1 is the current fourth gear I am talking about*)
The fourth gear in this tranny is just off!  It needs to be changed from the current 1.10 ratio to a much more sensible 1.00 ratio.  This is my only grip with this car, otherwise the American 3 is, and has been since it was introduced, my most favorite car in Wreckfest!  I tune my pad sensitivity to controlling this car!  I am currently running it with the bigblock, race intake/carbs and sport exhaust/headers to the tune of a high B class.  I only run the 5spd manual with no assists, and generally a lsd or locked differential.  And, yes a 1.00 fourth gear ratio is very much in line with many American cars and transmissions from the muscle car era to the 80s.  Even the aftermarket uses the 4th gear as a 1.00 ratio to base their 5 & 6 speed overdrive transmissions on.  And the American 3 has such a short jump from 3rd to 4th with the 5spd, that it makes a lot of sense to change the 4th gear to a 1.00 ratio.  The 5th gear is quite sufficient as an overdrive with a 0.82 ratio.
Now, for balancing purposes, you may want to adjust the 6 spd so the 5th and 6th gears are both overdrive gears (which is more consistent with American 6spd racing transmissions too) and leave the 4th gear as either a 1.00 or very near to it (like a 1.10).  The 5th gear can be a slight overdrive like a 0.94 with the 6th being a 0.80 or so.



Wow, I said a lot more than I though I was going to.... Well, No tl;dr for you!  If you want to know what I said, read it, otherwise just ignore it.
I made my main thought bold and large so you can't miss it!
EDIT:  Added info on bugs, ruled out keyboard in second bug.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 07:03:54 AM by findRED »
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Purple44

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Red, I did not see what pad you are using. Also are you using a 3rd party program to get your pad to work in Wreckfest? Or does Wreckfest recognize your pad no problem?
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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rhamm

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Is auto repair suppose to do the bare minimum to get the cars running and driving correctly?  If so then it works as designed but it seems kinda weird that I can repair my car and things are only fixed a certain percentage but I still have plenty of money left to go buy brand new parts.  Would be nice if the game had a repair wizard that let you choose levels of auto repair, including buying new parts.

The worst part of the cement bug is when your suspension gets down to 3 dots or less of health.  The first crash in this video I didn't mind as it kinda seemed realistic at the time but the second one is a bit over the top.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 04:58:19 PM by rhamm »
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