Author Topic: rFactor 2 compared to other sims.  (Read 3213 times)

Purple44

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I'm not the guy that should be starting a rFactor 2 thread, I'm not sim player ( but did pay $50 for the subscription when rFactor 2 first came out, I had my reason at the time ), but was Googling Bugbear Wreckfest and came across an article about rFactor 2 and found out it is offered on Steam now.  :o

http://store.steampowered.com/app/365960

Had to checkout the forum and came across this thread and post:

Is the game worth it?


Quote from: R.C. Collins;412447613566099021
Interesting to read the comments here.

A lengthy summary;

This simulator has had its share of growing pains, which I am openly critical of, and I have had a love/hate relationship with it since getting onboard with it in 2012.  As a pure simulator it is the best thing out there right now.  It is THE ONLY simulator real teams can use, whereby, they can input Real World data and get accurate feedback for track use and development.  None of your pCARS, AC, iracing or ANY Codies GAMES (these are NOT Simulators) can do that.  ISI works (has worked) with Auto Industry and Racing developers so as a pure Simulator, it's more true than anything else right now.

The graphics may not be to everyone's liking mostly because everyone is conditioned by the marketing of hyperized, post processed looking graphics such as pCARS or AC.  That is not truly how the eye or a vanilla camera sees anything.

Fake boobs 'look' good too but after a while, the novelty wears off since something about them doesn't feel right.

I'm just as guilty of buying into the hype of those other games however, what really clarified things for me, was shooting several hours of HD Video with a fairly good, midrange camera this past Summer at a major racing event near my home.  As I was watching and editing all the footage, you truly start to notice that the way rFactor 2 looks is more true to the way our eye processes or even as the camera, with no filters or processing, captures the moment.  My videos, shot on sunny Summer days with some occasional cloud, look surprisingly more like rFactor2 than the heavily (post)processed AC or pCARS.

Here is real life footage of Porsche GT3 cars at Mosport;
https://youtu.be/EIBIDHXAWuM

Here is a video of rFactor 2 with similar cars at Mosport;
https://youtu.be/_gGf1zzNFfU












Surprisingly similar looking.

Would I like to see the benefits of DX12?  Sure but, that said, DX9 is still very capable.  RaceRoom Experience is a good example of just how good DX9 can look and IMO, it is actually still a bit overprocessed vs. again, the way our eyes truly process input and how our brains decode.

https://www.google.com/search?q=raceroom+experience&biw=1859&bih=1018&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjFrpOZgILLAhUBdR4KHbuTDtgQ_AUICCgD#imgrc=zm4KzOE5pDiAoM%3A

Before getting into the next part, this is NOT about my game is better than yours,

For anyone too lazy to research for themselves, this will be honest, no mincing words and will be very candid.

Assetto Corsa;

It is NOT a simulator.  It used to be!  While it was still in Early Access, it felt and drove more like a Simulator.  Now, I'm sorry BUT, while they do blend the line very well between Arcade and Simulator, it's just that... Simcade.  They (the devs) are focusing on a different demographic with their console release in the near future.  They are catering to the Game Pad players, the kids that want to jump in and drive right away like they do in most console games.  Fine BUT NOT a Simulator.

The well known fact the Camber is broken;
http://steamcommunity.com/app/244210/discussions/0/494631873666265682

It is also quite possible that somewhere in this mix is an issue with the tire model since the heat affect or lack of it with this issue seems to also point to that.

They've somewhere along the way in recent builds/updates have some sort of 'Auto-Clutch' feature, if you want to call it a feature, that is ever present no matter what other settings I've set to have the clutch and shifting be manual.  Again, catering to the game pad kids.

The car also more recently has begun to feel glued to the road.  It lost its driving dynamics.  Again catering to the game pad kids.

The netcode is buggered, there are no proper pitting, no night racing, no weather/rain, no pace laps, no false starts... I'll stop... you get the idea?

It's also not exactly news anymore that Ferrari uses rFactor Pro as their development Simulator or at least their DIL.  What ISI learned by supporting the companies using rFactor Pro has trickled into rFactor 2.  How much I don't know but that is right from ISI people on their forums.

http://www.f1simulatormaniac.com/formula-1-2014/ferrari-changed-simulator-software


pCARS;

NOT a simulator!  Another GAME with their interests strictly in money from the console market.  Bug ridden, problems galore, all well documented with videos of screwed up AI, controller issues, graphical and other ingame issues, horrid steering/FFB, toxic management, toxic fanboy community and on and on and on and on.  Done!  Next!


iracing;

Without a doubt, the best online, multiplayer deal going on anywhere.  That does NOT mean it's the best Simulator.  BIG difference.  I see that arguement all the time and it's childish, uninformed and lacking simple logic or reasoning.  "It has the best multiplayer.  Best sim ever!", or "It has laser scanned tracks!  Best sim ever!"  NOPE!  Those types of items have NOTHING to do with being a simulator.

Many tracks now days do their own Lidar Laser Scan and then sell that to whomever wants or needs it.  How do you think pro teams using rFactor Pro have all these laser scanned tracks for testing/development?  They are not all going out and doing it themselves all the time.

iracing is incomplete and it's full of issues.  No real functional tire model to speak of.  They are either cold with grip or hot and greasy.  There is no simulation of fresh tire to grain, to peak, to wear, etc., and you cannot flat spot a tire.  Additionally, I'm not sure if you can pickup debris from going offline or off track.  They claim you can but if that works anything like their dynamic track/weather, or in that case, does NOT work then, I highly doubt it works.  I've never noticed it.  You drive on edge most of the time.  Not realistic.  Issues with persistent, horrible slow speed spins.  Setups are non-sensical because the physics are buggered too bad.  You cannot enter real world data as it simply does not work.  I raced C Trucks in iRacing with a guy who worked for a NASCAR Truck team and he took real data and tried it.  The truck was so buggered you couldn't get out of the pit.  That's not the only time I've heard this type of thing.

While there is night racing, there is no transitional 24 hour clock and there is no rain.

Sorry fanboys but it's a 20 year old game engine that is starting to exhibit ALL the problems of NOT being able to do what they claim.  All the fanfare over dynamic weather/tracks is now HUSH since it does not work.  It caused issues with top level, big $$ series.  People are talking of marbles not accumulating and huge amounts jump lag as people enter/leave sessions and constant stutter/frame rate issues have been present since that stuff in mid Autumn 2015.  There's just scads of info on all the issues.  At the end of the day it doesn't work entirely.  They are eliminating two cars to bring in new ones because the game engine cannot support more than 5 unique models at once.  They have ONE car from the Official Blancpain, they add a bunch of existing crap with it and call it the 'Real' thing and the real series.  PLEASE!  Don't patronize!  It's offensive!

Just because McLaren sells licensing to a company does not mean much else.  It's easy money and marketing for them.  At the end of the day, McLaren too uses rFPro.  iracing can say anything else though and all the schleps will fall for it.

http://articles.sae.org/12760

http://www.f1simulatormaniac.com/formula-1-2014/ferrari-changed-simulator-software


SCE/Automobilista;

Not much to say here.  It does it all well but since it's basically rFactor 1 enhanced on steroids, there's not much else to say.

Let's see if they make AMS something incredible or whether we just end up with their 4th version of SCE.


R3E;

RRE is fledgling IMO however there is sooooo much potential there if they could get the whole package right.  Unfortunately, it's missing proper pit stops, there's zero damage, you cannot save setups and this just scratches the surface as well.  That said, the driving is darn good, which is not entirely surprising since its roots are in an ISI/rFactor engine.  There is a great selection of cars that look great, the tracks are detailed and look great, the online/multiplayer is pretty good.  Too bad the devs kill it with constant micro-transactions only rivaled by iRap(c)ing.  They should be getting the product to a level where it's more complete instead of releasing new content.  If they developed a solid multiplayer structure, they could end up leaving everyone in their dust and perhaps even challenge i(w)R(e)ac(k)ing.

RRE has an amazing number of the Blancpain series cars.  I think they are only missing 2 or maybe 3?  They have some classic race series that are a blast to drive and they recently added open wheel.


rFactor 2;

Aside from the slow development and something lacking in optimization, this thing does it all!!

I would like to see the issues resolved to where this thing runs smooth all the time, with any car, with any track ISI or 3PA.  Running on a 4790K @ 4.0GHz, w/32GB RAM and a 980Ti should not be an issue yet the game struggles sometimes.  I know it's CPU intensive because of the physics but something has to be done from a development standpoint.

Visually, I'd just like to see it become more complete.  Rubber bits and gravel, dirt and grass bits to go with the amazing Real Road.  Dirt accumulation and scuffs on the vehicles and a proper damage model would be awesome.  Animated pit crews since the driver is already animated it's not that much more.  Add shifting to the driver like R3E.

As for a TRUE Simulator, NOTHING touches this.  The detail would take a small book however;

- Detailed Vehicle Parameters - Yes

- Contact Patch, Pneumatic, Active Tire Model w/Flat Spots & Debris collection - Yes

- Brakes heat, wear, and management - Yes

- Suspension modeling on numerous levels - Yes

- Springs, Dampers, Bumpstops - Yes


- Fuel modeling and mangement - Yes

- Aero modeling - Yes

- Detailed Engine modeling.  The list is massive from Bore/Stroke to Air Intake including Turbo, Oil, Water, Compression, +++, etc.  Staggering





- Gearboxes, Differentials, Drivetrain - Yes   * Would like to see better Clutch Modeling *

- Driver Physics - Yes

- Complete Pit Stops - Yes

- Real Road - Yes

- 24 Hour Clock with Day to Night to Day transition - Yes

- Driver swaps for Team and Endurance Racing - Yes

- Weather from Sunny to Cloudy to light Rain to Pouring Scripted or Dynamic - Yes

- Chassis Flex - Yes

- Good Force Feed Back

- Complete Starting options for both standing and rolling starts with Flag Rules for both Oval and Road Racing - Yes

- Complete Session control for leagues - Yes

- Multiple Controller Input Support including Load Cell brakes - Yes

- Triple Monitor Support with MultiView - Yes

It just has so much, is capable of so much and when it all works, it is absolutely satisfying to drive.  I find it highly annoying when garbage like iracing blow their horn over some 'NEW' feature like they just reinvented the wheel while something else has had a fully working version of that feature for years.  All the defenders and fanboys need to really smarten up and exercise some rationale, logic and brains to see the reality.

Speaking from real track experience, you drive this like a car.  All the reactions and input taught at performace driving schools, learned through seat time, all pretty much apply and work here.  It's not like iracing where a slide is next to impossible to save.  In this simulator, you have to approach it as a racing driver, understand the nuance of what the car is doing and make small changes and test, over and over.  It's rewarding and the closest thing to track experience in this respect.

The drawbacks as noted are computing power required, slow development/optimization, lack of a good mulitplayer racing structure though Race2Play is an option, it would be nice to see something native.

To the earlier comment from @rallysmo about everything being a MOD.  Why not?  Better than everything being an $8.00 - $15.00 DLC purchase.  There is a simple installation system for MODs.  If you like something great.  If not, simply remove it.  You can also run multiple installs so you can have an online install, all oval or all road racing install, a development install if you create and want to test new content.  It's really quite wide open, unlike your narrow mind.

On a side note, @rallysmo, you seem rather uninformed with regards to your comments and you have provided ZERO factual information to BACKUP ANYTHING you say.  You don't do yourself any favors by being unsubstantiated.



I'm not a sim player, so I will not comment on the different "sim" games listed.

But maybe in 2-3 years I should check back and see how the modding coming along for rFactor 2 and the online racing.

Purchase Options
There are basically three different options if you want to purchase rFactor 2:

    You can buy "rFactor 2" and enjoy every aspect of this simulation except on-line racing$32
    You can buy "rFactor 2 with Lifetime Subscription" and enjoy every aspect of this simulation including a lifetime subscription to on-line racing.  $85
    You can buy 'rFactor 2" and a separate "rFactor 2 - Online Services Subscription" which gives you the full simulation plus a year worth of on-line racing which you can renew.   $12 a year
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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Orbotnive T

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I've never paid any attention to this game -  :o - EXCUSE ME! - :o Simulator, like you I'm not that into that kind of racing.

But your post has got me interested in looking into it more to see the content and where it's going. The realism sounds really tempting it's just the tracks  ::) proper racing, dozens of laps, gets old quickly to me. I never got the bug.

St. Jimmy

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Need to install the rFactor 2 in Steam some day. I've been too lazy to do that and install the mods again. The launcher has some problems to download mods so that's also a reason I'll move in Steam some day. The tire model is so good and you really need to watch the temps and not push too much. I bought the lifetime years ago.

You can really see that it's DX9 game and audio isn't the best either but physics are very good. Too bad that the AI can't use the same tire model so it can be hard with some cars to have interesting racing because their driving is so different.
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rwb

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He's not "wrong," but I sure wouldn't have him over for dinner.

Taking all statements at face value and assuming truth in all of them, what do you want to do? What do you care about? Do you need a platform to try settings that will later be applied to a real car? Do you care most about decent online racing and lobbies that are consistently populated? Do you just want a simple, semi-realistic racing game with good graphics?

I recently went to a Ross Bentley seminar/workshop on modern driving sim software and how it can be used as a training tool, and it changed my perspective a bit. For the most part I play just for fun, but I still used to worry about the differences and discrepancies and wonder if I was doing myself some sort of disservice by acclimating to them or accepting their faults.

Here's what I realized: It's fine. Wanna know what Mr. Bentley, possibly the world's foremost racing coach, usually uses as a training tool? Forza. Does that mean that Forza is the best or most realistic racing simulator? Hell no.

What it should tell you though, is that if you stuff your racecar into a tire wall because you played iRacing to prepare instead of rFactor2, the software isn't the problem. Just do what feels good, man.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 11:10:08 PM by rwb »

Heddly

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Need to install the rFactor 2 in Steam some day. I've been too lazy to do that and install the mods again. The launcher has some problems to download mods so that's also a reason I'll move in Steam some day. The tire model is so good and you really need to watch the temps and not push too much. I bought the lifetime years ago.

You can really see that it's DX9 game and audio isn't the best either but physics are very good. Too bad that the AI can't use the same tire model so it can be hard with some cars to have interesting racing because their driving is so different.
I got curious as to what was new with rFactor2 and fired it up. The Launcher worked well. I downloaded and installed a lot of new cars and tracks and the Mod Manager was easy to add or remove mods as well.. Everything worked as advertised and had some fun along the way.

I feel like simcade fans, (I am one), could still have fun with the game as more mods are released. WreckFactor anyone?   :)

sam223

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Need to install the rFactor 2 in Steam some day. I've been too lazy to do that and install the mods again. The launcher has some problems to download mods so that's also a reason I'll move in Steam some day. The tire model is so good and you really need to watch the temps and not push too much. I bought the lifetime years ago.

You can really see that it's DX9 game and audio isn't the best either but physics are very good. Too bad that the AI can't use the same tire model so it can be hard with some cars to have interesting racing because their driving is so different.
I got curious as to what was new with rFactor2 and fired it up. The Launcher worked well. I downloaded and installed a lot of new cars and tracks and the Mod Manager was easy to add or remove mods as well.. Everything worked as advertised and had some fun along the way.

I feel like simcade fans, (I am one), could still have fun with the game as more mods are released. WreckFactor anyone?   :)
Did the damage make any improvements from rfactor? Ive still not picked up the 2nd one.
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rhamm

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rFactor 2 is fun but it just depends what you're looking for.  The damage model is the same as the one in rFactor 1 as it's never been a priority for ISI.   They go more for graphics realism than over bright stuff with super shiny reflections but yeah, lots of people don't like the graphics.

I play it mainly because of what they call Real Road which is a dynamic driving line which causes rubber to drop on the race surface based on where the cars are actually driving.  The other reason is the tire model.  It makes the cars in this video game feel more like driving a real car than any other one I've played.

I'm not the best driver out there so I mostly stay in the lower powered cars as it's a lot harder to lose control of them.  The 60s F-1 cars for example are pretty much an instant spin cycle so I stay in cars like the Renault Clio or Honda Civic.
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sam223

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rFactor 2 is fun but it just depends what you're looking for.  The damage model is the same as the one in rFactor 1 as it's never been a priority for ISI. 

Thats a shame. Was my biggest gripe with rfactor1. The visual damage and the way collisions are calculated (additional solid body collision box separate from the actual model). Everything else was great,the driving, car customization,options,mods support,multiplayer,performance affecting damage etc etc
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Heddly

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I just received this email about rFactor2 becoming a Steam only game. Future updates will only be through Steam so do it or loose it. It looks like the old content will be use able on the old client, just no more updates or online play as I read it.

Quote
Full Steam ahead for rFactor 2!

Hi there!

Our records show you own a license for rFactor 2 and that you might not have migrated this license to Steam yet.

Rest assured, your license will remain valid and you will be able to keep playing rFactor 2. It does however mean that you will not get any future updates to rFactor 2, including the free on-line access, since those are only available to if you migrate to Steam.

Our offer to migrate to Steam for free runs until the January 31st, 2017 which is why we're reaching out to you now. If you want to migrate, all you need to do is to fill out this form and we will e-mail you a Steam key: https://commerce.rfactor.net/steam-transfer-form

Once you've done that, you need to install the Steam Client here: http://store.steampowered.com/about/ Then you can follow these instructions to activate your product on Steam: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5414-TFBN-1352

If you have any further questions, don't hesitate e-mail us at support@studio-397.com or post in our support forum at: https://forum.studio-397.com/index.php?forums/rfactor-2-technical-support.138/

Thank you for all your support - we look forward to seeing you soon.

Studio 397


https://www.studio-397.com/2017/01/roadmap-update-january-2017/

http://www.virtualr.net/rfactor-2-goes-steam-faq

http://steamcommunity.com/app/365960/allnews/