Author Topic: Wreckfest Status Update  (Read 18894 times)

Saint Jimmy

  • Posts: 64
I feel this game has amazing tech, but the indecisive implementations of certain things really let it down. The new UI is a tremendous step in the right direction. If you're going for console releases, this is absolutely what you need.

I played this game to death online [before modding was released], the MP was great (Even though I hate team-racing when admins change it to that mode :) ). I stopped for a while and when I returned, you had to repair your cars and add crews and what not. This literally adds nothing to the gaming experience, other than making users enter a menu and clicking buttons. I hope this is removed for good, or at least bundled into a 'realism' mode for those that would like it.

Totally unrelated, and probably an unfair comparison; but I've been playing the Witcher 3 recently and the amount of options in the menus is amazing. It's the reason why games like ARMA are so successful because the options are there, and users can do what they want. If people want to play without the health bar, let them. We are the PC platform, we're built for OPTIONS!

You did good by allowing modding and allowing Steam workshop. This has added hours onto my playtime and is crucial for the long term life of the game. Games like Half Life, Skyrim are so popular because of modding .A game like this needs TRACKS and CARS, and we can now have that!

I want the driving physics to be a bit faster paced, especially when playing the amazing Destruction Derby mod. I think it's quite funny that such a ludcious gaming concept has semi-sim driving physics. I want to zap around tracks fast and look at how messed up the other cars get. Why do we have sim physics when we are flying off the big hill jump on Chalk Canyon  :D

The game you have at the moment is a GREAT racer. I would love to have Touring cars for example. But the heart of the game is smashing things up and jumping into shop-fronts! I don't really care about my parts, I just want to go fast and smash the AI/other players. Spinning out because of oversteer isn't fun in a game like this.

Easy for me to say; but again, if this was an option [to enable sim/arcade physics] then even better! Non programmers always have the best ideas right?! :)

I enjoyed playing even with the crew/parts system, but as soon as the health bar thing was introduced I stopped. I couldn't play my favourite Destruction Derby tracks because my HP was being hit after each jump, lap after lap, even without contact with other cars. Really silly change, with that sim fascination creeping in over fun gameplay yet again.

Wreckfest has a bad rep! I browse Reddit and every time it pops up, folks always mention about slow progress and not many features and the constantly changing design philosophy.

I always recommend this game to Destruction Derby fans (as I think it's a true sequel) , but I think the 'do it yourself' feel of the game puts them off. Why would they take a chance with an early access game that makes little progress? We all love the game, but where is the trust for new players?

Most of my friends are console gamers, and a few are racer fans. If the current-feel Wreckfest was packaged into a PS4 game, I know what they would say EXACTLY:

'Feels slow and there's not much to do' - Low content games get savaged these days. Just look at No Mans Sky. Your game is literally the racing version of No Mans Sky at the minute. Light on content, etc. Although there are no lies like NMS :D

In closing:

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast! The sense of progression was cool too, I always preferred the derby racing over the Supercar stuff though. (I'm glad the ragdoll thing has gone though)

Internet people are the loudest, yet the silent majority will be [are] your audience. They will be taking a chance buying your game on console. I just hope your sample audience are varied gamer types and not all hardcore simmers.

I would play Flatout:UC to this day, but i'm in love with Wreckfest's damage model. Anything less is just feels inferior! We don't know the pressures/struggles the publishers put on you, BugBear in the Flatout days, but the final products were amazing fun. Don't forget your roots.

A great damage model, fun physics, not bogged down by dumb crap. You have an amazing recipe here - just stop adding too much salt to the pot.


From, beloved fan :)

Yes, yes, yes. So many valid points (in my opinion)!
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Frisker

  • Posts: 1278
While I loved Flatout 2&Ultimate Carnage, FO1 was always my favorite. The reason being the bit more realistic handling physics, FO2 was a lot more arcadey in that aspect. In Wreckfest, I like the simcade type approach, as it makes better clean racing, but then again I do agree with an option for more arcadey handling aswell as that would make better smashing races outside oval and figure 8 tracks.
And also, menu options, YES. The more there is, the better. Atm I'd really like to turn off the health display, takes away some of the immersion when I know exactly who to hit. I like to look at the cars themselves and try to figure out the perfect spot to nail and wreck them!

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Zebulon55

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  • Posts: 968


In closing:

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast! The sense of progression was cool too, I always preferred the derby racing over the Supercar stuff though. (I'm glad the ragdoll thing has gone though)

Internet people are the loudest, yet the silent majority will be [are] your audience. They will be taking a chance buying your game on console. I just hope your sample audience are varied gamer types and not all hardcore simmers.

I would play Flatout:UC to this day, but i'm in love with Wreckfest's damage model. Anything less is just feels inferior! We don't know the pressures/struggles the publishers put on you, BugBear in the Flatout days, but the final products were amazing fun. Don't forget your roots.

A great damage model, fun physics, not bogged down by dumb crap. You have an amazing recipe here - just stop adding too much salt to the pot.


From, beloved fan :)

Agreed;

I think Bugbear set out to make the game that they wanted; they promised fun elements, but only they know for sure what they wanted in the game. The community offered suggestions, some were agreed to, others not.

The publishers of the past apparently kept the intellectual property, and dictated what was put in the game and what was left out. The Publishers want to maximize profits (ROI) and part of that is doing a market study and putting in features that are most popular. No one can say Flatout 2 was a bad game or unpopular because it followed the publisher's formula. Quite the opposite, actually.  I liked Flatout so much, that I bought Flatout2 as soon as I saw it available, and Flatout 2 became my favorite. I never tried Flatout UC myself, I had seen it described as just an enhanced version of Flatout 2, with "Games for Windows".  ::)

I think Bugbear is in a position now where they are thinking about maximizing profits, and that makes sense. Arguably, if they had originally gone arcade with Wreckfest, they may (or may not) have been at a financial point now where they could have made a realistic game or DLC from the IP that they developed, but that's not the path that they chose. Certainly, the mod scene is showing a preference for arcade play - Destruction Derby tracks and cars, the awesome CanyonX mod, Purple's Cops and Robbers mod, and many others offer over-the-top gameplay elements like jumps and explosions and over powered cars. Things that bugbear had available in the engine and assets, but didn't use in favor of realism and to avoid griefer's misuse.

Wreckfest is a great game - but not offering some of the features that many arcade fans are clamoring for. Stuntfest is the solution.

-Also from a beloved (Flatout 2) fan, one wishing the best for Bugbear's present and future projects.  ;D
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Daystar

  • Posts: 2639


In closing:

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast! The sense of progression was cool too, I always preferred the derby racing over the Supercar stuff though. (I'm glad the ragdoll thing has gone though)

Internet people are the loudest, yet the silent majority will be [are] your audience. They will be taking a chance buying your game on console. I just hope your sample audience are varied gamer types and not all hardcore simmers.

I would play Flatout:UC to this day, but i'm in love with Wreckfest's damage model. Anything less is just feels inferior! We don't know the pressures/struggles the publishers put on you, BugBear in the Flatout days, but the final products were amazing fun. Don't forget your roots.

A great damage model, fun physics, not bogged down by dumb crap. You have an amazing recipe here - just stop adding too much salt to the pot.


From, beloved fan :)

Agreed;

I think Bugbear set out to make the game that they wanted; they promised fun elements, but only they know for sure what they wanted in the game. The community offered suggestions, some were agreed to, others not.

The publishers of the past apparently kept the intellectual property, and dictated what was put in the game and what was left out. The Publishers want to maximize profits (ROI) and part of that is doing a market study and putting in features that are most popular. No one can say Flatout 2 was a bad game or unpopular because it followed the publisher's formula. Quite the opposite, actually.  I liked Flatout so much, that I bought Flatout2 as soon as I saw it available, and Flatout 2 became my favorite. I never tried Flatout UC myself, I had seen it described as just an enhanced version of Flatout 2, with "Games for Windows".  ::)

I think Bugbear is in a position now where they are thinking about maximizing profits, and that makes sense. Arguably, if they had originally gone arcade with Wreckfest, they may (or may not) have been at a financial point now where they could have made a realistic game or DLC from the IP that they developed, but that's not the path that they chose. Certainly, the mod scene is showing a preference for arcade play - Destruction Derby tracks and cars, the awesome CanyonX mod, Purple's Cops and Robbers mod, and many others offer over-the-top gameplay elements like jumps and explosions and over powered cars. Things that bugbear had available in the engine and assets, but didn't use in favor of realism and to avoid griefer's misuse.

Wreckfest is a great game - but not offering some of the features that many arcade fans are clamoring for. Stuntfest is the solution.

-Also from a beloved (Flatout 2) fan, one wishing the best for Bugbear's present and future projects.  ;D

OMG you forgot my skies! haha no worries, but you do bring up some valid points indeed. I just hope and pray that Bugbear keeps Wreckfest in focus, and not concentrate to heavily in thier X-box and ps4 versions! but I do still have confidence that Wreckfest will be a bad ass game, that will not go down in history... they just need to stay focused on Wf!
 

Zebulon55

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  • Posts: 968


OMG you forgot my skies! haha no worries, but you do bring up some valid points indeed. I just hope and pray that Bugbear keeps Wreckfest in focus, and not concentrate to heavily in thier X-box and ps4 versions! but I do still have confidence that Wreckfest will be a bad ass game, that will not go down in history... they just need to stay focused on Wf!

No, I didn't forget about your skies - they are a great addition, and alot of them fall outside of "realism", but I was more talking about gameplay objects.  Decor things like your skies and funny signage definitely set a mood for the game. I make signage for Purple's mods and definitely try to emphasize humor, though my sense of humor isn't everybody's cup o' tea. LOL
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sam223

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  • Posts: 3240
Im pretty pleased with the direction the game has headed. More pleased than i would have been for a flatout 2 clone anyway.
What i always hoped the game would become is what mod support is for.
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hande11

  • Posts: 203
While I loved Flatout 2&Ultimate Carnage, FO1 was always my favorite. The reason being the bit more realistic handling physics, FO2 was a lot more arcadey in that aspect. In Wreckfest, I like the simcade type approach, as it makes better clean racing, but then again I do agree with an option for more arcadey handling aswell as that would make better smashing races outside oval and figure 8 tracks.
And also, menu options, YES. The more there is, the better. Atm I'd really like to turn off the health display, takes away some of the immersion when I know exactly who to hit. I like to look at the cars themselves and try to figure out the perfect spot to nail and wreck them!
Agree on this. I have now both games installed Ultimate Carnage and Wreckfest. Before Wreckfest i was still playing UC happily, but now after Wreckfest, UC feels suprisingly, way too arcade and simplistic what comes to handling and damage physics. UC was nice in memories, but once i launch it, no way, i want go very fast back to Wreckfest. UC has it's merits, nice tracks and fun stuff going on. But i think too that what really sets Wreckfest very interesting ambitious new territory and not being just clone of many other games, is advanced car handling and damage physics. And now with modding support more possibilities to implement fun stuff too (according each one's taste) as Sam321 said. Arcade handling could be implemented with current driving assists, i think too (absolutely no need to lessen hi-fidelity of current handling without assits). And progression comes, when career is implemented.

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast!

EDIT: I was thinking about FAST factor of flatout (UC)  :) I agree, this is arguably is there, when compared to Wreckfest:
- Motion blur make Flatout appear faster
- Close proximity of props (barns, fences, trees, bushes) very near to road will make Flatout appear faster
- Driving through corners with greater speed with arcade handling and physics and using Nitro make Flatout driving speed faster
- Default FOV in Wreckfest might be too narrow to many users (setting FOV to +20 will really make difference to speed sensation)
=> Many of these i guess are quite easyble moddable and implementable as options for Wreckfest engine and are not really fundamental problems (ie. options, track design, mods, sequels using Wreckfest game engine)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 12:11:46 AM by hande11 »
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Devin

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  • Posts: 349
Now back to the health bar, since many people don't want it but somehow stopped talking about it:

In the latest WhyBeAre video, he first played Wreckfest in years, so he played with the health bar for the first time.

The bar was supposed to make wrecking more intuitive, easier to understand and more suited for the average console player.
Turns out it isn't. Most people who haven't read the changelog have no idea how the health bar works. In that video for example you can see that he notices that having black triangles doesn't kill him and he assumes they don't affect the car's health and instead only represent the visual damage. He then proceeds to hit everyone in a derby with just his front, long after those triangles were completely ruined already. This causes him to lose every single derby.

I think getting rid of the health bar again would make it easier for new players to understand how the damage works. At the age of 5 I already understood the damage system of Destruction Derby 2. Seeing that adults don't even understand Wreckfest's damage made me realize that many people are actually incapable of understanding the connection between the health bar and the triangles, because they're too indirectly connected. Damaging a triangle does not directly affect the car's health it seems. Many people have trouble understanding that connection then.

If there were only triangles and if they'd die once any triangle went black, they'd slowly start to realize "oh hey I think that's my health and I have to protect these", while currently they only think "The harder I hit others, the less damage I receive" while completely ignoring the triangles it seems.

I do like the health bars, but I suggest you look into them again. Maybe make them optional somehow, deactivated by default? Maybe in a separate gamemode even? Give servers and events the option to be more arcade, which changes both physics and the health bar for arcade sakes? Many people want Build 6 back, which was a lot more arcadey than the current builds. But I like the current builds. This would give us the best of both. Just a suggestion, but I really do hope that can happen

The Very End

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  • Posts: 2418
Agree, either fix it and make something like what Jimmy has done, making the health drop when a sector is black and you are hit in that sector, or remove it entierly.

Purple44

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  • Posts: 8353
Agree, either fix it and make something like what Jimmy has done, making the health drop when a sector is black and you are hit in that sector, or remove it entierly.

But I don't want my car to die to easy.

Damage indicators were working OK for me before the health bar got introduce.  :)
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The Very End

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  • Posts: 2418
Agree, before the health bar it was good :)

Hoppen

  • Posts: 127
Now back to the health bar, since many people don't want it but somehow stopped talking about it:

In the latest WhyBeAre video, he first played Wreckfest in years, so he played with the health bar for the first time.

The bar was supposed to make wrecking more intuitive, easier to understand and more suited for the average console player.
Turns out it isn't. Most people who haven't read the changelog have no idea how the health bar works. In that video for example you can see that he notices that having black triangles doesn't kill him and he assumes they don't affect the car's health and instead only represent the visual damage. He then proceeds to hit everyone in a derby with just his front, long after those triangles were completely ruined already. This causes him to lose every single derby.

I think getting rid of the health bar again would make it easier for new players to understand how the damage works. At the age of 5 I already understood the damage system of Destruction Derby 2. Seeing that adults don't even understand Wreckfest's damage made me realize that many people are actually incapable of understanding the connection between the health bar and the triangles, because they're too indirectly connected. Damaging a triangle does not directly affect the car's health it seems. Many people have trouble understanding that connection then.

If there were only triangles and if they'd die once any triangle went black, they'd slowly start to realize "oh hey I think that's my health and I have to protect these", while currently they only think "The harder I hit others, the less damage I receive" while completely ignoring the triangles it seems.

I do like the health bars, but I suggest you look into them again. Maybe make them optional somehow, deactivated by default? Maybe in a separate gamemode even? Give servers and events the option to be more arcade, which changes both physics and the health bar for arcade sakes? Many people want Build 6 back, which was a lot more arcadey than the current builds. But I like the current builds. This would give us the best of both. Just a suggestion, but I really do hope that can happen

Honestly, having played with the new health bar for some time now, I tend to agree, it's confusing to some people and adds very little to the gameplay. I do like how damage now deals out less to the attacker, but that could have been implemented in the old system.

It feels like having a health bar as well as the health triangles is kind of a mish mash between two health systems, which really wasn't needed.

My main issue with the game, is just a lack of polish now, too many people are crashing since the last update and servers are crashing more than ever. (Most seems to be upon track changes, or at the results screen after races)

Handling feels great, but there is still some buggy issues with cars digging into the dirt after landing, also collisions where one car lands on the other are awkward as the cars kind of melt together (it does happen more than you would think)

Apart from that, the game just needs a more intuitive UI, a single mode career and performance tweaks, if Bugbear want the game to run on consoles, they're really going to have to tweak the hell out of the performance (even still, I doubt whether the console versions will be able to handle more than 16 players or so)
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I like the full needle tachs more, personally. Maybe have some options for UI?

RickyB

  • Posts: 753
Just my 2 cents off the top of my head.
  • Improve Keyboard control. Steering with Keyboard was more precise in a previous build(s). Can't remember which one(s). Maybe build 6 ;)
  • Customization (is a must). Visual as well as race-options. Car colours, decals, HUD elements, AI-level, game modes, etc...
  • Visual deformation. A little bit "over the top", to bring back a fun element which I miss.
  • Optimization of performance. Especially 'enabling grass' --> Lowers fps too much... raises loading times a lot.
  • UI: It would be nice to have a preview picture for every track (+variant) in the main menu. A simple minimap would do. Selecting tracks could be faster via selecting the variant directly without clicking through other variants.
  • Health bar: Often it is confusing me more than clearing things up. I DNF sometimes with all sectors still dark yellow/orange.(?)
  • How about a mirror? Will probably cost even more performance(?), could be a simple one. Maybe a combi with the damage indicator as suggested here: (better than nothing :) )
    ...'tactical' top down view combined with the already existing damage-indicator (...) little CPU-Power needed(?)
     

TPEHAK

  • Posts: 140
I have a few questions since Wreckfest is going to be on game consoles. Are you going to perform better video graphics for PS4 Pro than for PS4 slim? Are you going to support PlayStation VR? Will video graphics on PS4 Pro be better than on PC?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 06:30:12 AM by TPEHAK »
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