Author Topic: SURVEY! Let's hear your opinion.  (Read 8542 times)

Paul_B

  • Posts: 160
Edit : Sorry never mind



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« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 01:02:54 PM by pben1 »
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TheEngiGuy

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  • Posts: 414
if the game was more like Flatout and less like a sim you guys would have one of the best arcade racing games out there. i don't like sim racing games that much there just boring to me. i mean clean racing that's boring, all you sim guys out there go play Forza this game needs to be an arced game. you guys need to drop this simulator kind of bull and just go back to arcade racing games trust me when i say this game is better off as an arcade game.

The next update will make assists more effective, so you should be fine.
Also remember, realistic driving doesn't mean no crashes.

Mopower

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  • Posts: 2271
if the game was more like Flatout and less like a sim you guys would have one of the best arcade racing games out there. i don't like sim racing games that much there just boring to me. i mean clean racing that's boring, all you sim guys out there go play Forza this game needs to be an arced game. you guys need to drop this simulator kind of bull and just go back to arcade racing games trust me when i say this game is better off as an arcade game.

The next update will make assists more effective, so you should be fine.
Also remember, realistic driving doesn't mean no crashes.

Oh great, so the guys with assists get to have 0 wheel slip like an F1 car and I'll still be hauling all 4klbs of my boat around the track free stylin'. Sounds great Bugbear,not. Who thinks assists are really a good idea in multiplayer? That makes no sense...
i like to honk to make my worse air
This is why we can't have nice things.

TheEngiGuy

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  • Posts: 414
if the game was more like Flatout and less like a sim you guys would have one of the best arcade racing games out there. i don't like sim racing games that much there just boring to me. i mean clean racing that's boring, all you sim guys out there go play Forza this game needs to be an arced game. you guys need to drop this simulator kind of bull and just go back to arcade racing games trust me when i say this game is better off as an arcade game.

The next update will make assists more effective, so you should be fine.
Also remember, realistic driving doesn't mean no crashes.

Oh great, so the guys with assists get to have 0 wheel slip like an F1 car and I'll still be hauling all 4klbs of my boat around the track free stylin'. Sounds great Bugbear,not. Who thinks assists are really a good idea in multiplayer? That makes no sense...

This is why SP > MP

Mopower

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  • Posts: 2271
if the game was more like Flatout and less like a sim you guys would have one of the best arcade racing games out there. i don't like sim racing games that much there just boring to me. i mean clean racing that's boring, all you sim guys out there go play Forza this game needs to be an arced game. you guys need to drop this simulator kind of bull and just go back to arcade racing games trust me when i say this game is better off as an arcade game.

The next update will make assists more effective, so you should be fine.
Also remember, realistic driving doesn't mean no crashes.

Oh great, so the guys with assists get to have 0 wheel slip like an F1 car and I'll still be hauling all 4klbs of my boat around the track free stylin'. Sounds great Bugbear,not. Who thinks assists are really a good idea in multiplayer? That makes no sense...

This is why SP > MP
IRL, the old timers don't say "Go put some assists on." They say "Boy, that might be a little more motor than you can handle." Maybe Bugbear could try to be cool and tell the online players that can't f*cking drive the same thing? Nothing worse than getting beat by a guy who has assists on. Don't know how many use assists, but I know there's a ton, because somehow every noob is a God at handling on mudpit.

QUIT BEING DINGLEBERRIES, BUGBEAR, MAKE IT FAIR!
i like to honk to make my worse air
This is why we can't have nice things.

TheEngiGuy

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  • Posts: 414
if the game was more like Flatout and less like a sim you guys would have one of the best arcade racing games out there. i don't like sim racing games that much there just boring to me. i mean clean racing that's boring, all you sim guys out there go play Forza this game needs to be an arced game. you guys need to drop this simulator kind of bull and just go back to arcade racing games trust me when i say this game is better off as an arcade game.

The next update will make assists more effective, so you should be fine.
Also remember, realistic driving doesn't mean no crashes.

Oh great, so the guys with assists get to have 0 wheel slip like an F1 car and I'll still be hauling all 4klbs of my boat around the track free stylin'. Sounds great Bugbear,not. Who thinks assists are really a good idea in multiplayer? That makes no sense...

This is why SP > MP
IRL, the old timers don't say "Go put some assists on." They say "Boy, that might be a little more motor than you can handle." Maybe Bugbear could try to be cool and tell the online players that can't f*cking drive the same thing? Nothing worse than getting beat by a guy who has assists on. Don't know how many use assists, but I know there's a ton, because somehow every noob is a God at handling on mudpit.

QUIT BEING DINGLEBERRIES, BUGBEAR, MAKE IT FAIR!

I'd agree with you, but half of the playerbase wants full arcade driving while the other half wants this game to stay simcade-ish. I'd also say that server host should be able to restrict assists but, heh, even more split community.

I personally don't care about all this, anyway, I stick to SP where I can do everything I want.

Big Ron

  • Posts: 195
Handling-wise I would like to see something in the range of Driveclub and Driver San Francisco. Challenging, but still enjoyable and arcade and easy to handle in extreme situations. IMO the simulation-aspect in the actual builds has gone too far because it´s not convincing enough. Nothing is more disappointing than an approach to be more realistic and then failing to give a convincing control system or the sim fail to simulate convincing in any situation. My experience is that the cars, when any aid is off, are hard to handle in hair pins at slow speed because I don´t have any feedback about what the tires do. And at high speeds at a certain drift angle I lose tire-feedback and the cars spin out. And then the interaction between terrain and car is unpredictable. I am often afraid to just stuck to the ground with my car or spinning out and have no idea why.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 05:00:42 PM by Big Ron »
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Orbotnive T

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  • Posts: 486
I'd like to hear results. Been about the right time hasn't it? Or maybe a week longer

TheEngiGuy

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  • Posts: 414
I'd like to hear results. Been about the right time hasn't it? Or maybe a week longer

I'd like to see the game being updated.

sam223

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  • Posts: 2754
They need to get a move on,itll be 2-4 weeks holiday again very soon.
Not looking good for that Early2017 final release
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 02:03:12 PM by sam223 »
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Paul_B

  • Posts: 160
Early 2017 not to hopeful on that , what if they have need to rebuild with out come of the survey.

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sam223

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Early 2017 not to hopeful on that , what if they have need to rebuild with out come of the survey.

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I doubt there will be any rebuilding. Just tweaking of physics and variables and additions. Its a bit late in production to decide they now want to make a flatout2 clone,since none of the tracks would work.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 04:40:37 PM by sam223 »
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RickyB

  • Posts: 583
I'd like to hear results. Been about the right time hasn't it? Or maybe a week longer
Mee too.
What surprised me the most was the moment in time of the survey. I mean, it's good that they do something like that, but I would have expected that kind of questions about a year or so ago. Not a few month before an alleged release. And what's the 'exiting' announcement, Janne mentioned? Tension is rising. :)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 05:34:16 PM by RickyBøbby »

Purple44

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  • Posts: 7228
I'd like to hear results. Been about the right time hasn't it? Or maybe a week longer

Mee too.
What surprised me the most was the moment in time of the survey. I mean, it's good that they do something like that, but I would have expected that kind of questions about a years ago. Not a few month before an alleged release. And what's the 'exiting' announcement, Janne mentioned? Tension is rising. :)


During the long wait for Build #7 to get release, Jori was doing some weekly reports and we got to discuss with Jori some the design stuff that was going on:

So!

This week the Wreckfest blog is all about game design. We’ll give you a glimpse on what we’re working on, and how those processes are approached.

What the game designer does is best explained in this wonderful blog post "The Door Problem" by Liz England, and we truly recommend you give it a read.

 
As game designers try to know why, what and when everything happens in a game, and what the game is expected to do, one of Wreckfest's biggest game design challenges is physics. Even without the difficulties of coding the physics engine in the first place, tuning the physics is an utterly complicated and convoluted process. We need to hone the balance between all the aspects of how the parts function – for example, car suspension has qualities that must be put into numeric values, like length, rigidity and such. Of these values eight are such that altering them produces a completely different driving experience. And we’re talking about suspension alone!

This is why tuning the physics requires an awful amount of testing by trial and error. That’s why there’s always someone sitting in our official test bench, playing a track, adjusting a slider, playing some more, adjusting another slider, and repeating that for weeks on end. Literally. Fortunately, this test of focus and patience is not a one-man job – we have several experts present who know how physics and cars work, and they constantly discuss how the game and physics feel and what needs to be done next.

And yes, there’s work to be done, like this video shows us.

 
While the physics team works their wonders on car handling, others focus on player progression. This is almost equally important, as it affects everything outside the track proper. The questions we face include how experience opens tech tree, how to purchase new items, will there be a crafting system and if so, what will it be like, and how various parts wear out and what effect durability has? All examples go much, much deeper than one sentence can deliver – e.g. durability contains questions like how fast will the parts wear out, what will their repair cost, will the maximum durability lower with each repair so that the player has to replace the part eventually, how will the part be replaced, and how will all this be presented to the player in a meaningful way that is not only informative and clear, but also cool and fun!

With all these, we’re finally settling on a model that should provide a system that is simple to use but complex within. The first iteration of the system is already in the build, but it needs a bit more work before we’re ready to show it to you. Let’s just say that we ourselves are pretty happy with it, so it’s probably going to be all right :)

That's it for this week! And, as always, our dear friends and followers:
Stay safe.


-Team Bugbear




This week at Bugbear!
*cue drum roll*

Aaaand no, the new build is not ready yet. We’re sorry that it's taking so long, but the physics are a huge chunk of stuff you need to get just right. Once that’s done we should be able to focus on other stuff and push out new builds on a more regular basis, so there’s that, at least.  We’re still doing our utmost best to launch the new build for everyone to marvel, but also working on asynchronous gameplay and new game modes.
 

We envy how well Forza does their asynchronous gameplay with Drivatar. It is absolutely fantastic in how it learns from the way you play, then mimics your style in someone else’s game, effectively letting you race against people who you have never, ever played with! We’d love to have our own Drivatar in Wreckfest, but we can’t. Our studio is just too small to pull it off. Instead, we’ll approach asynchronous gameplay from a less ambitious angle.

In effect, the way we’ll aim to create an avatar of you in the game will be through keeping record of your statistics. What’s your favorite car, your favorite track, your best lap time, your average position upon finishing, how much damage you do, and so on. Mostly they’re basic statistics, ones you see in many a game. These will be useful in themselves, helping you see how well you race with any car on any track, and also fun, when you want to e.g. check on how much time you’ve spent flying through the air!

With the statistics, we will try to build a guesstimate of you in the game. If your record shows you like crashing more than clean driving, your stats show that. If you tend to speed too much and take a corner way too fast, your stats will show that. And based on those stats, we’ll basically assign an AI behavior to your avatar. It won’t be 100% accurate, since it won’t mimic your driving to the tee, but it should be close enough to guess your preferred style of driving.

That’s the plan, anyway. Creating an asynchronous AI model is very difficult, but we’ll try nonetheless. In any case, the career statistics should be a cool thing to have.
 

This past two days we’ve also started developing  a new game mode to Wreckfest. It’ll be a cooperative race, dubbed cleverly Team Race. Players will be split into two teams, Red and Blue, and face each other off on the track. Here’s what we got so far:

The teams gain points in three ways. The first is, obviously, your position when the race ends. The second is from best lap time: the player driving the fastest lap time nets their team a certain number of points. The third way of scoring is wrecking opponent cars. When the race is over, the points are added up, and the team with the most points wins. So, even if a Red car crosses the finish line first, it doesn’t mean their team will necessarily win, if Blue has managed to rack up points by other means.

Team Race is still very much under development, and we’re yet to get to internal testing. Still, plans are made, and they’re being executed as you read this. Once we’re ready, it will be included in the next build, and we eagerly wait for your feedback!
 

Also, regarding physics, here’s a small video from this Monday, showing how bad a broken physics engine can get :)
Don’t worry, it won’t happen for you – this is a result of internal testing and tweaking the settings a bit too much :P

Click here for the video. We call it “Low Earth Orbit.”


This week’s blog opens our design philosophy and the lengths we go to so we can deliver that vision to our players.
The focus is on physics, and what we’re doing with all that jazz.

As a company, Bugbear is committed to making delightful car games. Not only do we strive towards excellent entertainment factor, we want our games to last for years. With Wreckfest, we really let our ambition run rampant, because we don’t want to create just another run of the mill action racing.
Often cars in games have only a few discernable factors, like acceleration, top speed and turning speed. That’s it. They’re really simple creatures, and this usually results in each new car being just plain superior to what you previously had, because of those overly simplified characteristics.
We don’t want to do that. We want our cars to be the main characters of Wreckfest. We want each and every car to be their own person, with their own quirks, strengths and hiccups. To accomplish this, our cars can’t only just feel different, but actually be different.

This feat requires some true magic under the hood. In order to give the cars enough personality, we need to have enough variables in handling and behavior so you could really spot those differences. This, of course, means amping up the physics engine, and to be honest, we’re going out of our way to do this right.
Each car has a huge number characteristics that define how it functions. The values given for the car’s frame affect how it turns, lulls, nods and bends in any given circumstance. In Wreckfest, the suspension portion of the car, meaning springs, sway bars and so on, is just a small part of the whole, but that alone contains over sixty different values. Each of those values affect directly how the car behaves, and each value needs a bucketload of tuning so you can get that feel of the car just right. The suspension is both a treat for sore eyes, as the cars bounce on their springs realistically, but also an important part of modeling car handling to the tee.
The tires of the car get a lot of love as well. They’re actually a perfect example of our attention to detail.  For example, the surface of the tire is divided into small segments. Each segment has several layers: our physics modeling takes into account the rigidity of the tire’s surface, the elasticity of the rubber mixture, and shock absorbance of the layers beneath. Not only that, we monitor things like friction and how the tire heats up – and how that heat changes the various characteristics! In short, our tires behave differently when they’re warm, and they have enough values to handle simulating any surface conditions we want.

Despite all this hyping up of how detailed we are with our physics modeling, the main goal, however, is not because we want to be a simulator. No. We need our physics modeling to have this much detail because we want the cars to behave like they’re supposed to when you’re sliding. We want that feel when the car remains in your precise control even when you’re drifting like crazy. That feel when your steel horse bucks and whines under you, but you, you remain in control. You can’t do that without digging deep into physics. So, we dug deep.

This is why it’s taking so long to get the next build ready for launch.
This is also why we think it’s worth the wait.

-Team Bugbear


Hello again!

With the new physics model coming up, we want our tracks to live up to the standards that kind of detail brings. That’s why this week’s blog will be about designing race tracks – what’s our philosophy there, and our golden goals?


In general, we are not aiming for easy tracks. However, we don’t want to create unfair tracks, far from it. We want the players to be able to learn the optimal paths to drive, and then hone their skills to shave precious seconds off from their lap times. We want the tracks to have this kind of detail – that you can enjoy thoroughly the tracks when you’re cruising for bruising, but if you want to push your limits and break your speed records, there’s absolutely room for that.

The essential philosophy in creating a track like that is that it should not fight or punish the player, that the tracks won’t let you go easy but also won’t kick you when you’re down. This means our tracks should have room for errors. You might floor it too heavily on a straight and brake too late, which will result in the car swinging off the road. But, having that room for error, that wide patch of grass before the tree line, ensures that you can get back on track and up to speed without losing your momentum entirely. (At this moment, not all our tracks are this kind.)

In addition to these safety zones, we aim to pace our tracks. You have your curves and your chicanes, but you’ll also have straight patches of road where you can put the pedal to the metal. This is not only because we appreciate the need for speed, but also so that you can have a moment to breathe and collect yourself after a not-that-optimal swerve and slide at that latest curve that got your heart racing. Take a few seconds to just keep on accelerating, and use that moment to wipe your brow and sigh from relief. That’s what we’re after.

With these two basic goals in mind, we can make tracks that are challenging, but not punishing, and can be enjoyed by Sunday drivers and gung-ho speed freaks alike. Especially the delicately designed optimal routes should provide a lot of substance to people who aim to be in the top 1% fastest drivers in each given track.


To make tracks like this, we do a lot of research. We examine thoroughly how classic real life tracks look like from the ground and from the air, so we can learn exactly what makes them legendary? We have obtained a bucketload of new tools that allow us to create a track by adding and moving control points and then creating a procedural geometry and terrain for a specific area, as well as tweaking the inclination of the road and angles of banks with one degree accuracy.

The best bit? We are making a library of road parts so that we can quickly mix and match, so we can create new track prototypes faster and faster. This means more speedier development times for tracks, which means we’ll be able to push out tracks on a faster pace.

The cherry on top? This library of road parts will be a terrific help for modders, who can either use these bits of track as they are, or they can alter them as they see fit!

All this is in line with our usual design philosophy: more depth than you’d ever guess, but with low enough a learning curve that you can thoroughly enjoy taking it casual.


That’s it for this week!
Enjoy the weekend, and, as always, stay safe.
 
-Team Bugbear





Hello again!
 
This week we’ll talk about creating cars – where do we start, where do we go from there, what to look out for, and how long it all takes? For Wreckfest, existing cars took about two months to complete – per car. Yes, it really takes that long!
 

It all begins by, obviously, figuring out what type of car do we want? A sedan? A truck? After we settle on e.g. a muscle car, we dig deeper: what type and style of this particular car type do we want? An olden goldie, or a more modern one? European, American or what? After this part of the process we have an idea of what kind of car we’re looking for, so we can start looking for reference material from their real world counterparts, up to and including blueprints of real cars.

Next up is the basic modeling of the car: modeling the car body without paying too much detail to panel curvatures, specific details and so on. These very basic models have all the obvious parts in place: four tires, bumpers, headlights and all that jazz, and about in the right places, too. It’ll look clunky as heck, but that’s okay, as we’re mostly interested about the overall feel of the car, and not so much of any specific details.

Once everything is modeled and in their right places, we create several variations of the car with different grills, lights and light configurations. The body of the car itself remains untouched, but it’s the small details that give the car that look you come to love, so it pays to create a few variants to be sure that this is what we want. Again, it’s not as much about creating finalized models as it is about giving the car several discernible feels, as all this helps us figure out what would work for this car and what doesn’t.
 

Once the prototype is ready, we start working on it in earnest. We start tuning curves, adding panels, modeling specific parts like axles and upholstery. Basically every detail will be added at this point – yes, it’ll often be just a rough semblance of what it’ll end up looking, but all parts will be put in place. For example, detailing the drivetrain means that if you flip the car and focus your view on the axles, you will see the brake shoes, springs, suspension parts, bolts, nuts and so on.

Despite the detail, we don’t actually animate that many of these parts, simply because it wouldn’t be cost efficient for the drain it would have on the engine. We totally could, though :)
 

The last stage is finalizing the car. At this point we know exactly what we want. The rest is polish, more polish, and then some more polish. We put all those nice curves in place. Get that geometry in place to the tee. Make sure that everything is in its place, and it’s all smooth and sweet. This will also help in creating smoother shading, which gives the car that golden touch. This final stage takes agonizingly long, as it’s all about the detail, and there’s always something that you could do some more work on.

After this stage is done, after everything is neat and tidy, we can start working on the textures… but that’s a whole other blog entry for a later date :)
 

Also, lately we’ve turned our demands on every detail to eleven, but we’d rather let the results speak for themselves than talk about what we will do. Let’s just say that, for example, everything is now modeled to the tenth of an inch. No, we’re not kidding. We figured that if we’re going to ramp up our physics and tracks, our cars should live up to that level of detail, too. Sweet, huh?
 

That’s it for this week!
As always, stay safe, all y’all :)
 
 
-Team Bugbear

(Note: while you can spot that one of these cars is indeed American Muscle 2, the blue car is a model that was abandoned, so don't take its appearance as anything else as serving as an example :) )




If wasn't until after Build #7 ( June 30, 2015 ) got release that some started serious voicing concern as to where Bugbear was taking Wreckfest. Most were happy with what we saw in Build #6, except those that wanted Wreckfest to be the true "Flatout 3" arcade racer with nitro and stunt games.
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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