Author Topic: Why Bugbear?  (Read 3829 times)

BenDover

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Havent BB sayd that this isent a sequel from the flatout series? If so, why beeing stuck at the game Flatout?

I know many ppl in here likes Flatout, I like it too but it was ages ago I played it, the real Flatout spirit with jumps* on the track, boost and all those things in the way dosent seem to fit NCG, not in the core game atleast, maybe if ppl made a mod with that kind of thing in them but what I have understand from BB is that this isent a sequel of Flatout.



*What I mean with "jumps" is not like on the gravel map where we have jumps, I mean jumps like on a show or something.
Clean and fair racer, but dont make me mad ;)
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Rowdy Burns

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From a person that loves real motorsport... Please, no shortcuts!!

Maybe they could be added in an arcade mode somehow??

Finsku

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From a person that loves real motorsport... Please, no shortcuts!!

Maybe they could be added in an arcade mode somehow??


Shortcuts are okay for me if shortcuts are dangerous to use.
Some of the removed shortcuts in Purple's video are easy to use, but I don't understand why hard shortcuts had to be removed.  :-\


Rowdy Burns

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@Finsku Any shortcut use is just outright cheating in my book! A race should be between the driver - himself - the track - the other drivers - So you`re racing along middle of the pack and you`re approaching a bend with the leaders battling in front of you... I don`t understand... Why even think about taking a `dangerous shortcut` to get in front? I`d rather have a battle on the track with all the other racers! If the AI was taking shortcuts to beat me I`d throw the game in the bin and I`m sure others would too! ... If this game is going to be an authentic and a more rewarding game both offline and online, shortcuts need to go and the game to be more realistic. If this game is going to be an arcade racer, put as many shortcuts, power ups and as much nitro as they want!!

Orbotnive T

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@Finsku Any shortcut use is just outright cheating in my book! A race should be between the driver - himself - the track - the other drivers - So you`re racing along middle of the pack and you`re approaching a bend with the leaders battling in front of you... I don`t understand... Why even think about taking a `dangerous shortcut` to get in front? I`d rather have a battle on the track with all the other racers! If the AI was taking shortcuts to beat me I`d throw the game in the bin and I`m sure others would too! ... If this game is going to be an authentic and a more rewarding game both offline and online, shortcuts need to go and the game to be more realistic. If this game is going to be an arcade racer, put as many shortcuts, power ups and as much nitro as they want!!

Ok this wasn't at me but I want to leave my opinion

I personally drive with a spectrum of style first of all. I can and do race clean and proper, disregard everyone else and go go go at anyones expense - or a mixture inbetween reacting to certain players actions, good or bad, against me or others if I see it.

Any shortcut use is just outright cheating in my book!

Cutting swathes of track IS cheating in my opinion too but
A race should be between the driver - himself - the track - the other drivers - So you`re racing along middle of the pack and you`re approaching a bend with the leaders battling in front of you... I don`t understand... Why even think about taking a `dangerous shortcut` to get in front?

Because risk and reward? For fun, to paint a picture on the track for others to play through :D It shakes up the games and randomizes things a bit  :) Now if you were playing with true racers and they didn't want you to do that it's ok because of two things. First they can kick you if you're asked not to and don't respond.

 And second it really wouldn't be able to make enough difference if you succeeded in getting through the risky shortcut in the first place with the experienced bumper to bumper drivers. You wouldn't get through all of them enough to plain beat a proper driver driving the true route - in my vision of it anyway. I'm trying to think of others here.

Some people just want to go out and crash some cars with others and have a laugh more than race and get the fastest times. Getting forward in the pack is preferable but not the priority. Watching in spectate and being part of a crazy scramble for position with cars going all over the place is fun too. So maybe you don't need to be fastest to win, and more players get to place high occasionally.

I believe though that the majority of the remaining players think more along the lines of your post rowdy. Only because so many buyers have given up playing or never post here though.
The actual majority don't want this to be gran turismo with 40-50 year old rustbuckets in it judging from the player count, I'm not knocking those who play fair.. All I'm trying to say is there's different styles of play and one is catered to more than the other - and it seems to be hurting player count if not sales counts also.


If the AI was taking shortcuts to beat me I`d throw the game in the bin and I`m sure others would too! ... If this game is going to be an authentic and a more rewarding game both offline and online, shortcuts need to go and the game to be more realistic. If this game is going to be an arcade racer, put as many shortcuts, power ups and as much nitro as they want!!

The AI wouldn't need to use alternates. I disagree to the game becoming even more realistic than it already is. It would basically mean everyone should avoid touching at all or suffer radiator/steering column failure in 1 or 2 laps.

Some players want nitro 30ft jumps and power ups yes and I know that is plain not going to happen. But at the same time I believe this game was more fun in the past when there was more action, and there never was nitro or enormous leaps. It doesn't have to be binary - Wreckfest OR Flatout. Just knock wreckfest up one or two ticks toward the old flatout tracks, a very mild representation that's grounded in reality but allows for more dirty play and big accidents- and maybe we'd get some players and buyers from it.

One point to remember is that choice is good. You can play the game the way you want to with it. Want a top tier race with no shortcuts or attacking, get together set up and run an event for it. I'd say the same about a banger scramble type event with people setting up each other for crashes, chopping corners, breaking the route or whatever but that isn't catered to enough right now in my opinion  :)

 I know I'm not alone in that.

I have over 1200 hours in game so obviously I like it. But I hope this doesn't just become another time trial race game on race tracks where you're punished for creating a mess on the track even more than it has now. I feel that it's killing interest.





 


BenDover

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A race should be between the driver - himself - the track - the other drivers

Just like how I want it on my server and how it usually is :) Anyway, now and then new players not knowing the rules use to fuck this up preatty bad but you need to tell them over and over again until they understand :)

Clean and fair racer, but dont make me mad ;)
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Orbotnive T

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As I have said to you Ben I'm willing to enforce the rules dictated to warrant play on your server. And it's actually annoying to me when others disregard them. It should be your choice since you're offering multiplayer gameplay. Even if it's the only populated server going.. Some think otherwise.


That said it shouldn't be the case that people who bought the game can't play filthy if they wish XD And the options to do so aren't vast

BenDover

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Yeah I know many dosent following the rules and we have had a lack of admin on the server, but from the last update I will be online much more and if anyone are playing on the server and its trubble makers on the server just poke me or another admins, or even come to our Discord channel where we almost everytime have an admin or an mod online. Even if you know Raceclimb you can poke him :)

But yeah, its annoying when some dosent follow the rules when yourself are, and many might think we are hard on the server sometimes but its not that hard to follow the rules and even getting warnings over and over again you will be removed from the server in the end.
Clean and fair racer, but dont make me mad ;)
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sam223

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Personally i don't think a lot of the exciting action packed racing of previous builds came from some magic physics formula, or because some rocks/shortcut,jumps or speed limiting grass wasnt there. It was all from the players attitudes when racing  on shorter tracks. The biggest buzz killer for a long time imo,has been the ability to host big servers.

If you want action packed racing,no matter the layout shape, style or gimmicks you need a grid size proportional to lap length.
It doesn't matter what you add or how you rationalise  it,a long lap will create a boring action less race once the pack splits up.
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Rowdy Burns

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Quote
But I hope this doesn't just become another time trial race game on race tracks where you're punished for creating a mess on the track

I absolutely agree!

There should be the online chaos with the `rodders` and `wreckers` this is banger racing after all! I could live with some shortcut cutting maybe just implement a time penalty like the Dirt Rally online rallycross steward system and first place would be handed to the clean `rodders`

Quote
a long lap will create a boring action less race once the pack splits up
This is why Wreckfest UK Bangers are so good!

Finsku

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@Finsku Any shortcut use is just outright cheating in my book! A race should be between the driver - himself - the track - the other drivers - So you`re racing along middle of the pack and you`re approaching a bend with the leaders battling in front of you... I don`t understand... Why even think about taking a `dangerous shortcut` to get in front? I`d rather have a battle on the track with all the other racers! If the AI was taking shortcuts to beat me I`d throw the game in the bin and I`m sure others would too! ... If this game is going to be an authentic and a more rewarding game both offline and online, shortcuts need to go and the game to be more realistic. If this game is going to be an arcade racer, put as many shortcuts, power ups and as much nitro as they want!!

I wouldn't take dangerous shortcut to get closer to 1st place, it can mess my race. But players who are long away from 1st place could try to catch players with shortcuts.
And I'm not talking about shortcuts which cuts a huge part of track, I talk shortcuts which are shorts and doesn't give so big help for player (not like shortcuts in CTR). If there's jam a player could take shortcut OR if there's a crash player could miss it with shortcut.

We have to think both player groups: clean and derby racers. In multiplayer a host could decide can players use shortcuts or not.

Purple44

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@Finsku Any shortcut use is just outright cheating in my book! A race should be between the driver - himself - the track - the other drivers - So you`re racing along middle of the pack and you`re approaching a bend with the leaders battling in front of you... I don`t understand... Why even think about taking a `dangerous shortcut` to get in front? I`d rather have a battle on the track with all the other racers! If the AI was taking shortcuts to beat me I`d throw the game in the bin and I`m sure others would too! ... If this game is going to be an authentic and a more rewarding game both offline and online, shortcuts need to go and the game to be more realistic. If this game is going to be an arcade racer, put as many shortcuts, power ups and as much nitro as they want!!

I wouldn't take dangerous shortcut to get closer to 1st place, it can mess my race. But players who are long away from 1st place could try to catch players with shortcuts.
And I'm not talking about shortcuts which cuts a huge part of track, I talk shortcuts which are shorts and doesn't give so big help for player (not like shortcuts in CTR). If there's jam a player could take shortcut OR if there's a crash player could miss it with shortcut.

We have to think both player groups: clean and derby racers. In multiplayer a host could decide can players use shortcuts or not.

Us players that like have some rough racing online, the Mixed 4 shortcut would help with that. Leader plays it safe and take 90 degree turn. I take the shortcut and go for the T-bone when coming back on to the track.   :)
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raceclimb

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well first and foremost as an experienced yacht racer i'm kinda bummed by the "experts" who fail to recognize that "alternate routes" are a part of many respected forms of racing

this may come as a shock to some of you...but in sailing i'm SUCH a stickler for rules i make ol' Brian seem "laid back" (srry B...lol)

however the game of Wreckfest is all about doing a bit of everything, not just with the best, but with the WORST too.


by NO stretch of the imagination am i saying that a properly managed clean server should put up with trolls


i AM saying that this game is for EVERYONE


i don't give a RAT if some kid wants to ride the wall on some dirty oval...heck his car will be trash in 3 laps anyway

and a week from now he'll be asking me what a "real time" looks like because by cheating he lost the chance to track his REAL progress on the leader board !


to ME the real issue is weather or not a specific "cheat" becomes practically mandatory (like for instance grass cutting when oval 2 was first introduced)

and the ONLY way this can really be done is on a case by case basis. There simply is No one simple answer, and quite frankly  if some of those in favor of even WORSE tack penalties knew what i REALLY know about dirty tricks...

well they would THANK me...every single undo penalty for getting a bit wide is just one more place the trolls will push you

and some of the better ones can get away with it almost anywhere


just imagine if you will, the chaos, confusion and all the ensuing arguments at the track if the notorious "cheat" coming off the last corner onto the final straight of Sand-pit 1 if some jerk could just push you down there on purpose and ruin your race....dirty track, clean track it wouldn't matter...the same cheap trick can be used.

as it stands we have a perfectly FINE way to decide and rule on this at any given event...HUMAN JUDGEMENT

Ben does a FINE job


but if the POINT is to get MORE players out, then we NEED to make it friendly and fun

Tarmcac 3 has a serious problem where just off corner number one one can easily be pushed outside the checkpoint by "shovelling' a player off to the left side of the track. I'm not exactly clear what advantage one could gain by going out there (especially as i HAVE been out there a lot...minus one lap due to no fault of my own tyvm)....but i AM sure that if it were removed i would have seen a LOT more players NOT QUIT first lap of a 10 lap event


personally i would appreciate it very much if conversations about check points included ALL play styles and not just specific interest groups
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 06:45:07 AM by raceclimb »

BenDover

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i AM saying that this game is for EVERYONE

Sure the game is for everyone, but we missing out on really many players becuse of the name of the game "Wreckfest" tbh, there are not racers that buy this game, becuse many thinks you cant race in it sadly, it was a bigger variant just when B6 came becuse many already had the game then when its was called "Next car game" (I know they renamed the game to WF in B6) but that was when we starting to lose a specific playerbase sadly. And thats annoying me even today and thats why I only like to call it NCG and not WF. :)
Clean and fair racer, but dont make me mad ;)
Clean Racer? Head on over to BenDovers NCG Group - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BensNCG#

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t3MP . 3ROr

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i AM saying that this game is for EVERYONE

Sure the game is for everyone, but we missing out on really many players becuse of the name of the game "Wreckfest" tbh, there are not racers that buy this game, becuse many thinks you cant race in it sadly, it was a bigger variant just when B6 came becuse many already had the game then when its was called "Next car game" (I know they renamed the game to WF in B6) but that was when we starting to lose a specific playerbase sadly. And thats annoying me even today and thats why I only like to call it NCG and not WF. :)

Yeah lately I really think the name: "Wreckfest" hurt the game more then helping getting new players on-board. The name "Next Car Game" actually fits much better now, because the game is really a next kind of game: multiple player types, with many game mods already and more to come in the future.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 06:41:00 PM by t3MP . 3ROr »
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