Hi DD, thanks for the suggestions. I had read through that thread when researching if anyone had done a fair style derby track and liked some of the locations. Problem is that I am still learning 3ds Max and am unsure how to get the default tracks imported to add objects or edit. I've had some great help from other mod makers but hate hounding them with all my noob questions. As i learn more, or come across the info needed to get the default tracks into 3DS for editing I will revisit this. I could do a from scratch derby arena similar to the one you suggested on tarmac2 (square arena in parking lot) and use the buildings and objects to make it look similar, and use the barrier of your choice to enclose it. Any other ideas?