Author Topic: Why the game is so boring? Is it arcade or sim?  (Read 10709 times)

Zebulon55

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  • Posts: 737
It is a bit pointless this thread lastbreath, if you dont even own the game yet. Saying its not flatout enough when you havnt driven the cars which in turn decides what kind of tracks are suitable and possible.
You will see when you play i guess, that while tracks like the DD2 mod are nostalgic. They don't play like as they did in the original DD2,because none of the physics are similar.

Big jumps don't work because of soft bodies. You bend the car to much, you affect how it reacts with circuit geometry (unlike every other racing game)
Destructible scenery doesn't work unless its mass-less (just eye candy) because they go out of sync with servers which are already at their peak load.
Long complicated tracks don't work because the driving model is more complex than previous flat-out. To complex and anyone without experience cant compete.

Basically the positives of wreckfest (softbodies and in depth driving model and physics) is what limits this game from having crazy DD2 style tracks that are playable.

I find a lot of mod tracks certainly playable with jumps and massless destructibles - Ricky, TVE and X have made some awesome tracks. Purple's tracks tend to be a little harder on the cars, but a five minute endurance race instead of a 2 hour endurance race is a good thing too. LOL

The game doesn't have to be just like Flatout to include more adventurous tracks. It could still be innovative.
I think Bugbear could increase their popularity and sales of the game by including a set of tracks with more of the elements discussed in this thread, in DLC if necessary; they could also add some very realistic derby tracks like Mopower has wanted. Everybody could find something they like. Sure, it would dilute the concept of realistic banger racing, but I'm ok with others playing the game their way on the kind of tracks they like. A campaign could just use the realistic racing and leave other tracks for online, or possibly allow the player to choose a style path to follow instead. As for splitting the community - well, I'm thinking it's already split.

Trackside destructibles with no mass or tracking could be fun if they are mixed with similar items that are fixed. That could be fun if you are into pushing another car into obstacles. Sometimes they get wrecked, sometimes they drive right through.

Are the explosive gas cylinders on mixed 1 tracked by the server?

Splits can be good for alternate routes should the track be blocked by a wreck at a bottleneck. If a jump through a massless barn door is on that alternate route, all the better.

It is really just the insistence solely on "realism" that limits the fun, IMHO.

Purple44

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  • Posts: 6722
Maybe there is no need in 20+ cars? I play with 15 cars and it's still a good mess! And developers can implement more features with vacant calculations. No?

What!!!!! No need for 20+ players online!!!! Don't say that!!!   :P

15 players online is OK, but I will take 20+ players any day I can find it on a server that can handle the load. There are few out there.  :D

makes for better wrecking and chaos, right Purp?  8)

More T-bone action!!  :D
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

i5 2500, 8GB, Nvidia 660 960, SB Recon, Win 10 or Win7 64bit, DFGT Wheel

sam223

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  • Posts: 2564
It is a bit pointless this thread lastbreath, if you dont even own the game yet. Saying its not flatout enough when you havnt driven the cars which in turn decides what kind of tracks are suitable and possible.
You will see when you play i guess, that while tracks like the DD2 mod are nostalgic. They don't play like as they did in the original DD2,because none of the physics are similar.

Big jumps don't work because of soft bodies. You bend the car to much, you affect how it reacts with circuit geometry (unlike every other racing game)
Destructible scenery doesn't work unless its mass-less (just eye candy) because they go out of sync with servers which are already at their peak load.
Long complicated tracks don't work because the driving model is more complex than previous flat-out. To complex and anyone without experience cant compete.

Basically the positives of wreckfest (softbodies and in depth driving model and physics) is what limits this game from having crazy DD2 style tracks that are playable.

I find a lot of mod tracks certainly playable with jumps and massless destructibles - Ricky, TVE and X have made some awesome tracks. Purple's tracks tend to be a little harder on the cars, but a five minute endurance race instead of a 2 hour endurance race is a good thing too. LOL

The game doesn't have to be just like Flatout to include more adventurous tracks. It could still be innovative.
I think Bugbear could increase their popularity and sales of the game by including a set of tracks with more of the elements discussed in this thread, in DLC if necessary; they could also add some very realistic derby tracks like Mopower has wanted. Everybody could find something they like. Sure, it would dilute the concept of realistic banger racing, but I'm ok with others playing the game their way on the kind of tracks they like. A campaign could just use the realistic racing and leave other tracks for online, or possibly allow the player to choose a style path to follow instead. As for splitting the community - well, I'm thinking it's already split.

Trackside destructibles with no mass or tracking could be fun if they are mixed with similar items that are fixed. That could be fun if you are into pushing another car into obstacles. Sometimes they get wrecked, sometimes they drive right through.

Are the explosive gas cylinders on mixed 1 tracked by the server?

Splits can be good for alternate routes should the track be blocked by a wreck at a bottleneck. If a jump through a massless barn door is on that alternate route, all the better.

It is really just the insistence solely on "realism" that limits the fun, IMHO.

Ive tried to stay impartial on the whole realism/fantasy thing i think. Maybe not further back in the thread (it is 2 years old!). Just speaking from hosting experience about the mass/massless objects causing issues. Same as with the jumps causing problem. Gravel 1's jumps would be my example, they got smoothed out and are less violent now. I assume because there were loads of complaints of cars bottoming out after jumps.

Gas cylinders on mixed 1 probably cause issues online,cannot confirm though. Large amount of tire stacks were bad in my experience,mainly when there was action between cars aswell.

Just stating what i think is possible currently really,of course it doesnt matter at all if you only race offline. But it seems there are limiting factors with track design when it comes to online racing.
Personally it makes no difference to me what direction they take with the game, i only ever play mods online. Because im a die hard proper banger racing fan.

In terms of realistic banger racing, this game isnt realistic at all. Inner oval is the closet thing to a realistic banger track,none of the cars are realistic unless you are basing them on banger racing in the 1970's :)
Community is split many ways already. Clean and dirty vanilla racing, and then mods are split aswell between fantasy mods (like Ricky and some TVE tracks)/mods in the spirit of the game (like 57 chevy/40's ford)/and mods that focus on realism and ignore the original game completely (like tads and TVE's replicas and my bangers).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 02:52:41 AM by sam223 »
Dell U2515H 25",  i5-4690k @4.0ghz, 8gb ram, Zotac GTX 960 4GB, 120gb SSD, 1tb HHD, win 7, G25/Ps3 pad
Online Bangers:Wreckfest - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=740683245

Purple44

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  • Posts: 6722
Community is split many ways already. Clean and dirty vanilla racing, and then mods are split aswell between fantasy mods (like Ricky and some TVE tracks)/mods in the spirit of the game (like 57 chevy/40's ford)/and mods that focus on realism and ignore the original game completely (like tads and TVE's replicas and my bangers).

Agree the Flatout\ Wreckfest community is split in many direction. No way Bugbear going please them all. But Wreckfest is Bugbear first real chance to make their dream game, so I'm happy to see Bugbear do it with some input from the community that help make it possible with their $$ support as long as Bugbear keep that in mind by keeping us in the loop on the development of Wreckfest.
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

i5 2500, 8GB, Nvidia 660 960, SB Recon, Win 10 or Win7 64bit, DFGT Wheel

Zebulon55

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  • Posts: 737
Yeah, Janne has said that they want to take a more realistic route with the game, so I expect Bugbear to do what they want.
I'm always willing to support someone who wants a more arcade experience, however. I enjoy it more than realism.

Hoping for a few pleasant surprises with the new build, though!

I really don't like seeing "this game is not for you, go play whatever" and only Bugbear can say "this is how it is". Kind of puts people off the game.

I'm going to be playing this game however it goes, mods and online. maybe we'll play the online bangers one Saturday night soon.
Speaking of Saturday night, I'll bet Purple's out there now. Be there soon.  ;D



There is an issue on Mixed 1 with trac control - I wonder if it occurs when someone trips the explosives?


lastbreath

  • Posts: 95
Same as with the jumps causing problem. Gravel 1's jumps would be my example, they got smoothed out and are less violent now. I assume because there were loads of complaints of cars bottoming out after jumps.

There is such thing as breaks, if you now about dangerous jump ahead - just slow down, dude! The problem is solved! ))

sam223

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  • Posts: 2564
Same as with the jumps causing problem. Gravel 1's jumps would be my example, they got smoothed out and are less violent now. I assume because there were loads of complaints of cars bottoming out after jumps.

There is such thing as breaks, if you now about dangerous jump ahead - just slow down, dude! The problem is solved! ))
I know,or always use rally suspension :)
Dell U2515H 25",  i5-4690k @4.0ghz, 8gb ram, Zotac GTX 960 4GB, 120gb SSD, 1tb HHD, win 7, G25/Ps3 pad
Online Bangers:Wreckfest - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=740683245

Konan

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  • Posts: 30
Same as with the jumps causing problem. Gravel 1's jumps would be my example, they got smoothed out and are less violent now. I assume because there were loads of complaints of cars bottoming out after jumps.

There is such thing as breaks, if you now about dangerous jump ahead - just slow down, dude! The problem is solved! ))

Wouldn't that take away the purpose of a dangerous jump though? :-)

Pritchard

  • Posts: 12
You can't really use the brakes before a jump unless you have a comfortable lead on the AI, mostly because they won't use them and they will slam into your rear end. And on longer races, kill themselves taking the jumps too hard...

lastbreath

  • Posts: 95
Wouldn't that take away the purpose of a dangerous jump though? :-)
The purpose of a dangerous jump is to punish for mistake ) So, everything is OK )

You can't really use the brakes before a jump unless you have a comfortable lead on the AI, mostly because they won't use them and they will slam into your rear end
Who said it would be easy? )

Pritchard

  • Posts: 12
Getting rear-ended is one thing, and yes it does make the game harder. But it's really not that difficult if all of the AI are dead by lap 5, is it?