Author Topic: Its time to save this game!  (Read 3538 times)

TheEngiGuy

  • Posts: 391
Bring it on.


TheEngiGuy

  • Posts: 391

https://steamspy.com/app/228380

Looking good


It's holiday time for Bugbear now, anyway. The cycle repeats with 2 (3 tops) month gap until the next update and another storm of negative reviews :P

Finsku

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  • Posts: 539
Still looking good! :thumb_up:

Purple44

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Good to see Wreckfest getting more good reviews.  :D

I'm still holding off spamming my friends list to give Wreckfest a second look. I think the new June Build got a few issues to ironed out before I send a message out. Maybe next Build.
Flatout Joint, where the mods were.

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TheEngiGuy

  • Posts: 391
BeamNG: from december to august, 3 updates. "wow nice game best early access ever"

Wreckfest: from december to august, 4 updates. "WHAT A SCAM, SHADY BUSINESS, NEGATIVE REVIEW HURR"

Tonza

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BeamNG: from december to august, 3 updates. "wow nice game best early access ever"

Wreckfest: from december to august, 4 updates. "WHAT A SCAM, SHADY BUSINESS, NEGATIVE REVIEW HURR"
Ya that is quite annoying.just like wreckfest, I like beam alot and fully respect the devs, and most people know that they're a small team. But people seem to think that Bugbear is a big company for some reason (maybe because of they been around for a long time?)

TheEngiGuy

  • Posts: 391
BeamNG: from december to august, 3 updates. "wow nice game best early access ever"

Wreckfest: from december to august, 4 updates. "WHAT A SCAM, SHADY BUSINESS, NEGATIVE REVIEW HURR"
Ya that is quite annoying.just like wreckfest, I like beam alot and fully respect the devs, and most people know that they're a small team. But people seem to think that Bugbear is a big company for some reason (maybe because of they been around for a long time?)

Space Engineers released in oct. 2013 in Early Access: "it's ok"

Wreckfest released in dec. 2013 in Early Access: "HURR EARLY ACCESS SCAM THERE SHOULD BE A TIME-LIMIT NEGATIVE REVIEW HURR"

CrashsTestsFr

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Wreckfest : full release late 2014. That's why people are "angry".
Space Engineers : full release ever announced ? (real question)
BeamNG : full release ever announced ? (real question)
The 90's arcade racer* : full release late 2014. But fewer news than Wreckfest. People are mad.
Road Redemption : full release late 2014. But fewer news than Wreckfest. People are mad, too.

PS : I own the 5 of them.
* : now renamed "90's Super GP" and edited by Nicalis. Still no news, and this change has been announced nearly a year ago.
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TheEngiGuy

  • Posts: 391
Wreckfest : full release late 2014. That's why people are "angry".
Space Engineers : full release ever announced ? (real question)
BeamNG : full release ever announced ? (real question)
The 90's arcade racer* : full release late 2014. But fewer news than Wreckfest. People are mad.
Road Redemption : full release late 2014. But fewer news than Wreckfest. People are mad, too.

PS : I own the 5 of them.
* : now renamed "90's Super GP" and edited by Nicalis. Still no news, and this change has been announced nearly a year ago.

From BeamNG:
"Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“It is difficult to give an exact number, but probably at least 12 months before we could call the game "beta" (feature-complete)"
over 2 years later, doesn't seem like a beta yet. People aren't whining.

Road Redemption's devs have been hit by a hurricane, that explains the delay. Still, reviews are very positive.
Wreckfest has been delayed because of the new engine. Unlike Road Redemption situation, it was the dev's choice, but still valid right?

Let's see Wreckfest at its current state now. Many tracks, 15-20 cars confirmed and career, new publisher revealed, E3 and Gamescom involvement, active dev's twitter profile, a new definitive release date set in stone (so that's the next step to consider) with all those features.
Oh yeah, they did say "monthly updates" but is that the reason to encourage everyone to review it negatively despite the other news? Even if the update frequency has been similar to BeamNG's? Even if you consider development time, they both started at around the same time and Wreckfest is gonna be finished before BeamNG (and before Space Engineers, and maybe even before The Forest)

Someone should explain this to me because I'm probably missing something.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 05:59:58 PM by TheEngiGuy »

DD-Indeed

  • Posts: 256
Hmm, I might wanna inject a word over here.

We gotta remember the sort of audience, that the game draws in and is aimed for. Obviosly, the first glimpse of this game was that sandbox many years ago, which exploded amongs the players and people began desperately wait for the game. Next step was to introduce the main game itself, which lacked the sandbox mode alltogether. This propably was one of the things that started to split the audience a bit, they expected to get that sandbox alongside other new stuff and proper racing as well. However, the main game itself draw in new people, who were interested in racing. Things progressed nicely for a year and it was looking like they would get to the goal with the game, albeit it being ''only'' with that older engine, which I think would have been okay for its time. The sheer frustration upon hearing the news about complete engine haul and the delay it would cause obviosly didn't please the fans and the game's popularity plummeted in the summer of 2015. The whole thing what happened in there is very complex afterall, now that we look it as a sort of ''retrospective'' view.

First of all, the engine changed the handling and physics completely. Single biggest reason to player decline. I understand, that when being a Early Access-project, things might change dramatically during the development process and usually will change too. But some people are not capable of accepting or getting used to something new, something that feels odd or bad to them. One of the things I wondered was that were they not capable of tweaking the ''new'' game to feel like the previous versions ? That's one of the questions I've always wondered. That alone would have saved a lot of people getting frustrated about the delay or about the overall feeling of the game. Things like these are like a poison to any game in EA. It's very hard for the devs to publish something to the EA-program, that would stay close to the original design in the end. Especially since we are talking about car game, that is all about driving physics, which are very sensitive for changes. You felt it immediately, when devs had tweaked the settings and everytime fans split the opinions, unless you got used to them. Some of the tweaks were easy to learn, some of them weren't.

During that time, it was pretty clear to many of us, that the dev team was limited in fundings and personnel, which of course reflected to the update cycle as well. That of course backfires a bit in fanbase, which realizes it as well and decide to venture into other stuff, not having enough faith in the project. To me, devs could have taken the safe route and release the game with the old engine and focus the new engine building for another game instead. But these are just hindsight thoughts, which may not be the way the devs planned afterall. I remember them saying, that they were not satisfied with the quality of the game and was the excuse to head for the engine overhaul.

Second thoughts, comparing games to other games is sometimes not necessary, as they are individual projects and aiming for different things. Someone already mentioned BeamNG.Drive, which I have been playing a lot on recent years. Wreckfest and BeamNG do not compare or even complete with each others. To put it in simple way: Wreckfest is the plug'n'play-type of game, the fun and fast one, just jump in and bash everything that moves, get your hands dirty with those rustbuckets in the garage. BeamNG represents completely different thing. It's sterile, real life physic simulator, aimed for enthustiasts and takes many many years of development till reaching the goal. Wreckfest will be out this year, BeamNG will be out in about 2-3 years maybe. Both projects have started actually in a pretty much same time, so in that manner, Wreckfest has been done in a reasonable time afterall, especially when concidering the small team of it (to my knowledge, under 20-30 personnel) and a lot less fundings available. THQ Nordic's invervention was brought in just in the right time to boost up the project.


I too hope, that the final release will boost up the sales more and establish a healthy fanbase and online community, in which all players can have fun and the game would offer great races and events. BB and THQ hopefully push for great marketing campaing, as there is a lot of other car games coming out this year, that they need to complete with, so a good trailer is the key thing to gain momentum right now. :)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 10:48:58 PM by DD-Indeed »

CrashsTestsFr

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First, I apology, I should have mentionned my post wasn't "rocket science", since it's based on my feelings while browsing those games' forums, and not on facts like Steam Reviews.
My bad.

BeamNG :
Yep, that's a (very) long early-access too. But every time, they come with something new or enhanced.
As far as I remember, the only thing they "removed" was a map they were "reworking".
My thoughts on the game might be biaised, since that I've bought it because I thought it was a "really nice sandbox car crash simulator". I wasn't aware (or even interested ?) in campaigns / scenarios.
Those aren't there yet, but as I wasn't expecting them, I can wait.

Road Redemption :
The game has been playable and almost complete since the beginning (The campaign, XP system and even split-screen multiplayer were there in 2014).
People were mad because of the lack of communication. Release date was due to October 2016, but as you mentionned, they were hit by hurricane.
So now, good reviews, people complaining on Steam forums.

Space Engineers :
I'm not sure they will hit version 1.0 after Wreckfest release. But what I know, it's that there is a developer diary EVERY WEEK. Even if it's just "Hi, nothing existing, just bug fixing and textures been reworked, bye.", it give the impression they are going forward. There were people really mad when they dropped 32 bits support, but the general feeling is good.

Wreckfest :
"FlatOut spiritual successor out in 12 months, we'll be independant, and here are the features we would like to implement".
I agree, people might have read "features we will implement".
As I'm a software developper, I know it's easy to plan a lot and to estimate too much few time to do it correctly.
Which is totally what happened here.
It started on a good base, the game had working physics and enough content to make us wait.
They decided to upgrade their engine, for a better future. I was (and still am) 100% with this decision.
But then they reworked the physics, multiple times.
They started to give us new unfinished tracks for content, but not new features (it's not true nowadays).
It felt like the game base was being reworked again and again and again, not necesseraly for a better result (in the eyes of the players - see people complainig about physics).
Add the total mess when they announced and released Stuntfest, which is (at the moment) dead.
On top of that, add the fact the devs said they will be more communicative multiple times and haven't done really better each times.

So, after 4 years, what we have had :
1) not much communication
2) the impression that the "core" of the game is not yet ready
3) A lot of unfinished tracks (because of point 2)
4) Not a lot of cars (since they rely on physics to develop them, that's normal -  because of point 2)
5) No career mode (because of point 2)
6) No "real" customisation mode (basics are here, but real lack of content and balance - because of point 2)
7) Bugbear being no more independent (it was a really important point when I gave them 70€)

The point 2 is, in my mind, what hurts the game. A lot of people can't understand that after 4 years an "available" game (even if in early access) it feels so unfinished, not relying on a solid base.
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Jallu0312

  • Posts: 11
Well, I have never been as hyped for a game as I was in 2014. Then the hype came back last year. Now I am just dissappointed with bugbear, who are just talking shit, and doing nothing they promise. probably the game will get its next track a few months from here and the full release will be surely in 2050:s.

BUT SERIOUSLY I havent even heard about the beta. When will it come out (if it ever comes)?

Cody_Hanavan

  • Posts: 6
When I upload new wreckfest content to youtube and tweet about it I try to throw tags in there for bugbear and they've re-tweeted me a few times... they know we are here and we still play, unfortunately they've just lagged behind on their updates.  I hoped when THQ got involved things would change but its bee a bit since their last update and if I remember correctly they were going to shoot for monthly updates on the game.  Hopefully they have something big in the works but I am not so sure.  The UI update was nice but they need more.  Here's to hoping they can turn this thing around....

On another note... they seriously need to get in contact with or help out our modders.  Some of those guys are what keeps the game alive and they've been left in the dark on how to work with the new way things work with guts of the game.