Bugbear Community

Wreckfest => News => Topic started by: Team Bugbear on May 25, 2016, 06:52:20 PM

Title: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Team Bugbear on May 25, 2016, 06:52:20 PM

We’re pleased to let you know that the latest update is out! In this update we’ve paid special attention to car-to-car collisions to make them more weighty and dynamic again, and now major crashes will more often result in the cars taking air or flipping over instead of just sliding around. We’ll continue to improve crashes and at this point we’d love to hear what you think; are the cars now flipping over even too easily? Do the crashes feel weighty enough? Are they too hazardous from the player’s perspective?

In the other news we’ve also improved the AI. Not only it’s quicker and more aggressive towards each other and the player but now it also reacts to being bumped into the boot by swerving around and sometimes downright losing control and crashing – how cool is that? :)

Other goodies are included as well with full changelog below.

CHANGELOG:

As always, thanks for your support. Please keep the feedback coming in!

Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 25, 2016, 06:55:38 PM
Good stuff again,will test later and leave collisions feedback
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: The Very End on May 25, 2016, 06:56:09 PM
Thank you so much nice fixes, and Im eagerly waiting to try out the new AI and AI geom files :)
I know I pester you devs with questions, but how does foliage / offroadfoliage work? Cannot seem to add grass and such to texture with right name conention.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Lunatic on May 25, 2016, 07:22:18 PM
Good stuff!

Just wondering, can we expect any new cars for the game soon as well?
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: MSPORTBMW on May 25, 2016, 07:25:26 PM
Thanks for the update,,,,,,,,My early impressions are that the cars are flipping a little too easy.....however, the damage calculations seem better for me.

Keep up the great work....its very much apprieciated
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: The Very End on May 25, 2016, 07:27:08 PM
The crash physics are superb! As you said "over the top crashes", well, now it is! It's so much fun banging around with the AI's on track. Really, thanks a lot :)
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 25, 2016, 07:46:58 PM
Another Update!!! thanks BB only im having the same issue, have 2 delete and redownload the game again :(
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Orbotnive T on May 25, 2016, 08:12:36 PM
Looking great offline so far :) Really fun again, I'll keep testing as nobody has flew yet. Posted about handling being much better in the other thread
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: St. Jimmy on May 25, 2016, 09:12:43 PM
"Racing AI now reacts to being bumped or rammed by possibly losing control and/or spinning out."

Feels nice now. Even Euro 1 has a chance to do something.

Cars don't flip too easily.

Nice to get some more impact again.

I also tried the new Sandpit 2. The walls really give a nice look for the track. The alternate route on the right hander isn't "blocked" in any way so it might be confusing for people who don't know/remember the track.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: TeksWiller on May 25, 2016, 09:34:32 PM
Thanks for frequent updates. That's what community have asked :D Crashes are feeling better.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: RickyB on May 25, 2016, 10:21:55 PM
The AI behaviour is really fun. I like it. Spinning cars around feels almost too easy, but maybe it's just the big difference to the previous build and it's just a matter of getting used to. leaderboards got reset?... ahh my precious first place - gone forever  ;D lol
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Paul_B on May 25, 2016, 11:40:37 PM
Car flipping is fun for derby's but on track cars tend cars get in your way, but the AI collisions are cool 
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 26, 2016, 12:03:24 AM
Love the new update and the leader board reset XD got No.1 on 3/4 of the tracks :) see how many i have in the morning hehe
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Mister T on May 26, 2016, 12:08:33 AM
Thanks for the great update.

That`s how it should feel, superb physix and huge fun with the new AI  :D
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: TPEHAK on May 26, 2016, 05:11:13 AM
Very good update!
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Gerty on May 26, 2016, 09:31:58 AM
Driving feels worse than in previous update wich was an improvement in handling. Too much understeer again.
I have noticed that difference in cars handling is now bigger, as well as difference between locked diff & LSD. Is this intentional? Or am I wrong and nothing changed?
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 26, 2016, 09:35:22 AM
Driving feels worse than in previous update wich was an improvement in handling. To much understeer again.
I have noticed that difference in cars handling is now bigger, as well as difference between locked diff & LSD. Is this intentional? Or am I wrong and nothing changed?

I didn't see much difference in handling nothing to effect my speed in any way and yes when u use locked diff am1 is 4wd and lsd is 2wd and theirs more understeer with locked
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Blazingtheory on May 26, 2016, 09:38:06 AM
are the cars now flipping over even too easily? Do the crashes feel weighty enough? Are they too hazardous from the player’s perspective?

The weight of the car feels awesome while moving across  the different surfaces of the tracks, in both frictional and gravitational senses; however, the effect of the impact on a car that takes a "T-bone" style hit feels a bit too much like the "takedown" physics from the later Burnout games... Ya' know what I'm sayin'? Basically, the car absorbing the hit seems to suddenly go into a parrallel dimension that has ~ 60/70% gravity.

I don't think anything about this feels too hazerdous, just a bit too arcady for my taste.

Amazing update tho guys. I particularly love the progress on the handling and that mixed 1 track art!
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Gerty on May 26, 2016, 09:43:26 AM
I didn't see much difference in handling nothing to effect my speed in any way and yes when u use locked diff am1 is 4wd and lsd is 2wd and theirs more understeer with locked
Initial turn in some of us have noticed in previous update is gone. I could point front end where I wanted easier in last update.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 26, 2016, 09:45:55 AM
I didn't see much difference in handling nothing to effect my speed in any way and yes when u use locked diff am1 is 4wd and lsd is 2wd and theirs more understeer with locked
Initial turn in some of us have noticed in previous update is gone. I could point front end where I wanted easier in last update.

Yeah there was more sensitivity on turn in last update which I had previously mentioned a while ago but the difference is more realistic , makes u work u can't just turn in at full speed u have to rotate the car a little etc
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Daystar on May 26, 2016, 09:52:40 AM
Thanks for the update Bugbear! I will have to try it out later today when I wake up.. been up all night creating a new Skypack  ;D
and love what I read in this updates description! sounds really cool, and I will need to disable my HulkSmash mod to fully experience this new build!
Thanks again! (http://orig09.deviantart.net/eb36/f/2014/250/0/1/cheers_fella__party__by_ehsan_m-d7xzyzd.gif) G'Day Janne!
 
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Gerty on May 26, 2016, 10:09:12 AM
Yeah there was more sensitivity on turn in last update which I had previously mentioned a while ago but the difference is more realistic , makes u work u can't just turn in at full speed u have to rotate the car a little etc
I don't think its more realistic. Weight should transfer to the front on hard braking, but it feels like it doesnt, car doesnt turn until I apply gas to loose rear tires.
Also weight transfer issues can be seen on jumps when back of the car sticks to the ground.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 26, 2016, 10:25:28 AM
? it turns in but when u are on the gas it wont, just when u coast and brake a little the front end hooks up,its much the same speed with the new update got too .1 of a second off my previous world record last night, the weight transfer is fine, just brake hard dab of handbrake rotate the car a bit and power through
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Gerty on May 26, 2016, 10:51:38 AM
I'm not on the gas on the 1st phase of corner when I brake & turn in. I'm on the gas when I'm closer to the apex.
I just think its too lazy right now. Maybe these old cars meant to be like that. I dont know. In last update they felt more racey
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Jake97 on May 26, 2016, 12:12:40 PM
I like this update thank you :) Kind of reminds me of how it was before that huge update last year and that's a good thing
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: TheyLiveWeSleep on May 26, 2016, 02:36:04 PM
I couldnt give a crap less about "realism" when it takes away the fun in a game. For a while there it was bland and boring but now it is finally coming back together especially now with the AI flying off track and into things again sometimes after hitting them. It is finally getting that build 6 feel again with the AI actually making mistakes and swaying off the road crashing into things hard! We needed that back so good job. Keep the pit manoeuvres easier as well. Lots of good updates these last months :D
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Devin on May 26, 2016, 02:54:45 PM
I personally have to say that the game really seems to become better and better with every update. But the latest one gave me so much understeer, it just feels horrible. The rear tires feel like they're glued to the ground, I don't even get wheelspin at the start of a race on Gravel 1 anymore. The fronts however just slide all over the place. No matter how hard I turn, I either have to make the car slide or I will go straight. Well, making the car slide when the rear wheels feel like they're stuck to the ground doesn't quite work. Also, once I began sliding, I usually had to correct the slide a bit, but then the front wheels instantly caught grip and sent my car off the road into the wrong direction. Not even formula 1 cars react so dramatically on that. It feels like an arcade racer with full driving aids on, even when I turned them off, made for people who can't drive. I seriously wish that the next update fixes this. After all, should anyone have trouble driving the cars, what are the driving aids for? Turn them on, end of problems :P

tl;dr
Overall, the cars felt like I was running with max driving aids on. They just didn't do what I wanted. And they had horrible understeer. I had to drift do even drive through corners at a decent speed, but drifting is hard because once the drift is not perfect, you'll either go sideways and just stop or you try to correct it and go into the other direction instead. Not drifting enough will make the car snap back into "non-drift-mode" (which is weird because I'm pretty sure the way ROMU's physics are set up doesn't differ between anything like that), making the car go straight. It's just so hard to drive...
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 26, 2016, 03:19:13 PM
I personally have to say that the game really seems to become better and better with every update. But the latest one gave me so much understeer, it just feels horrible. The rear tires feel like they're glued to the ground, I don't even get wheelspin at the start of a race on Gravel 1 anymore. The fronts however just slide all over the place. No matter how hard I turn, I either have to make the car slide or I will go straight. Well, making the car slide when the rear wheels feel like they're stuck to the ground doesn't quite work. Also, once I began sliding, I usually had to correct the slide a bit, but then the front wheels instantly caught grip and sent my car off the road into the wrong direction. Not even formula 1 cars react so dramatically on that. It feels like an arcade racer with full driving aids on, even when I turned them off, made for people who can't drive. I seriously wish that the next update fixes this. After all, should anyone have trouble driving the cars, what are the driving aids for? Turn them on, end of problems :P

tl;dr
Overall, the cars felt like I was running with max driving aids on. They just didn't do what I wanted. And they had horrible understeer. I had to drift do even drive through corners at a decent speed, but drifting is hard because once the drift is not perfect, you'll either go sideways and just stop or you try to correct it and go into the other direction instead. Not drifting enough will make the car snap back into "non-drift-mode" (which is weird because I'm pretty sure the way ROMU's physics are set up doesn't differ between anything like that), making the car go straight. It's just so hard to drive...


It's expected if u use am1 locked u should know by now they changed it 2 4wd so it bogs on starts
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 26, 2016, 03:20:13 PM
Played a few hours online last night,and a couple of races against AI. New collisions feel good,weighty like you are carrying momentum again. Possibly slightly to easy to spin (spin out too fast) other drivers/AI and roll cars from their side (whatever axis they are in game),front to back roll is great though. Moment of inertia change needed?

Increased car health or less health damage received in hits (or whatever you changed) seems to encourage people to go wrecking again rather than car saving. Maybe the easiest way to fix the issue of people not wanting to crash is a server option, multiplier for car health, or longevity (less/more car health damage dealt and received). Rather than making it easier to crash like the last update.

I do like the handling at the minute although i did spend all night in the sedan with stiff LSD and soft suspension on all tracks. Can see the weight shifting, drift and hold it if i want to or drive a tight line whilst managing grip levels.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Devin on May 26, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
It's expected if u use am1 locked u should know by now they changed it 2 4wd so it bogs on starts
Wait, so AM1 is now 4WD? That makes even less sense then. 4wd should be even less understeer-y and even easier to slide. It isn't.

However, usign Rally suspension made it drivable on gravel tracks, at least for me. So possibly the suspension setup caused all this. Haven't tested tarmac tracks though, so I might be back to complain even more :P
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: RickyB on May 26, 2016, 03:23:40 PM
... the effect of the impact on a car that takes a "T-bone" style hit feels a bit too much (...) Basically, the car absorbing the hit seems to suddenly go into a parrallel dimension that has ~ 60/70% gravity.

I was thinking kind of the same thing. It almost seems as if the impact force gets transferred almost completely to the car that got hit (like billiard balls) - usually I would think a part of the force would cause deformation (=absorbed by both cars bodys) resulting in a little less force to throw around the car that got hit. Maybe a little less billiard ball effect would feel somehow more realistic?
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: KingOfTheCakes on May 26, 2016, 03:24:07 PM
Much better than last fix, but now the AI are too easy to spin and push around, especially with the American 3, haha! They feel like they have no weight on my bumper and very little effort is needed to spin them, even the Sedans have this problem. I like how they try to bump me around now, but because they feel so weightless it doesn't phase me, in fact they usually spin themselves out when they try it. Personally, I liked the spin psychics and weightiness of the AI a few hotfixes back, this area didn't need re-tuning imo.

 I'm liking the aggression and pacing though, that is welcomed! It's reminding me of the early days of NCG again!
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Jerry055 on May 26, 2016, 09:21:17 PM
Good to see the game going to it's former self more or less, impact and collisions feel way better again, for AI I'd say, if before this update spinning an opponent factor was 1/10 and after this update it's a 10/10, for the most realistic feel you could screw it back a bit to let's say a 7/10. Collisions with other online players is spot on! Like the new way the AI races aswell.

This update on it's own maybe looks small, but it is a quite big one (in the right direction) in my eyes.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Gerty on May 26, 2016, 09:22:33 PM
I was wrong about handling. It seems now you have to find right combination of parts what suits you on particular track. Wich is interesting. And possibly I was locking the tires braking too late & too hard (is lockups simulated in wreckfest?)
I will do further testing.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Mopower on May 26, 2016, 09:24:57 PM
I agree about cars being a bit too heavily impacted in collision, but it beats coming to a dead stop and realistically at 40+ mph, shit's gonna move
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: hande11 on May 26, 2016, 10:26:41 PM
I personally have to say that the game really seems to become better and better with every update. But the latest one gave me so much understeer, it just feels horrible. The rear tires feel like they're glued to the ground, I don't even get wheelspin at the start of a race on Gravel 1 anymore. The fronts however just slide all over the place. No matter how hard I turn, I either have to make the car slide or I will go straight. Well, making the car slide when the rear wheels feel like they're stuck to the ground doesn't quite work. Also, once I began sliding, I usually had to correct the slide a bit, but then the front wheels instantly caught grip and sent my car off the road into the wrong direction. Not even formula 1 cars react so dramatically on that. It feels like an arcade racer with full driving aids on, even when I turned them off, made for people who can't drive. I seriously wish that the next update fixes this. After all, should anyone have trouble driving the cars, what are the driving aids for? Turn them on, end of problems :P

tl;dr
Overall, the cars felt like I was running with max driving aids on. They just didn't do what I wanted. And they had horrible understeer. I had to drift do even drive through corners at a decent speed, but drifting is hard because once the drift is not perfect, you'll either go sideways and just stop or you try to correct it and go into the other direction instead. Not drifting enough will make the car snap back into "non-drift-mode" (which is weird because I'm pretty sure the way ROMU's physics are set up doesn't differ between anything like that), making the car go straight. It's just so hard to drive...


As a keyboard player, i'm still forced preferring my very weird setup for tarmac (http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,8610.msg82406.html#msg82406) to get less grip on tarmac and more oversteer. Had very short test on gravel with this build with standard tyres and other standard parts (AM1), and i feel the same: too much grip. I practically need to use handbrake on gravel track on almost every turn, to get car rear end initiate sliding, no matter the speed and "keyboarding the wheel" to the extreme sides (lame to say, using kb here, which is not cool). With using handbrake on turns, then beautiful sliding physics actually kick in and i can get car sliding as i expected it to behave. Also doing scandinavian flick will help, i can *sometimes* initiate with it car losing grip in turns and going into beautiful slide mode that game already has to offer (...if only you can get into it somehow). But flick is damn hard to do in race!

Would like to see losing grip in gravel and sand only having lot of speed and very agressively turning the wheel to extreme position and using throttle on strategic parts on turns. Imagine ice track (have raced it few times in real life), have a grip somewhere between ice and tarmac..and there you have gravel and sand. So yes from here too for possibility to have less grip and more oversteer to initiate beautiful sliding physics game already has (hidden)! I try to stay away from understeer, when ever i can (when not trying to drive too competitevely) :D, but ok if other like it too. Damn, i totally missed previous update, so cannot say anything about it's driving feel. Onto testing more.. and not forgetting Axarator's drifting mod (http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php?topic=8813.0)

Otherwise, good work BB and great build!
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Raindog on May 26, 2016, 10:38:45 PM
Love the fact that there was an update only one day after I bought the game! I like that AI is more agressive, but I would prefer the impact and collissions to be toned down just a bit, maybe something between the previous version and the new update. As far as I'm concerned cars can get wrecked a bit more easily too, it's so weird to have half a car racing around the track at full speed.

Also, at the top corner it shows what place you are driving in. It would be cool if, when a car gets wrecked, the number in the top corner decreases with one. Sorry if I'm not making sence, I'm having some trouble explaining it in English. So when a car get's wrecked, you're no longer 5/24 but 5/23.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 26, 2016, 10:52:07 PM
I personally have to say that the game really seems to become better and better with every update. But the latest one gave me so much understeer, it just feels horrible. The rear tires feel like they're glued to the ground, I don't even get wheelspin at the start of a race on Gravel 1 anymore. The fronts however just slide all over the place. No matter how hard I turn, I either have to make the car slide or I will go straight. Well, making the car slide when the rear wheels feel like they're stuck to the ground doesn't quite work. Also, once I began sliding, I usually had to correct the slide a bit, but then the front wheels instantly caught grip and sent my car off the road into the wrong direction. Not even formula 1 cars react so dramatically on that. It feels like an arcade racer with full driving aids on, even when I turned them off, made for people who can't drive. I seriously wish that the next update fixes this. After all, should anyone have trouble driving the cars, what are the driving aids for? Turn them on, end of problems :P

tl;dr
Overall, the cars felt like I was running with max driving aids on. They just didn't do what I wanted. And they had horrible understeer. I had to drift do even drive through corners at a decent speed, but drifting is hard because once the drift is not perfect, you'll either go sideways and just stop or you try to correct it and go into the other direction instead. Not drifting enough will make the car snap back into "non-drift-mode" (which is weird because I'm pretty sure the way ROMU's physics are set up doesn't differ between anything like that), making the car go straight. It's just so hard to drive...


As a keyboard player, i'm still forced preferring my very weird setup for tarmac ([url]http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,8610.msg82406.html#msg82406[/url]) to get less grip on tarmac and more oversteer. Had very short test on gravel with this build with standard tyres and other standard parts (AM1), and i feel the same: too much grip. I practically need to use handbrake on gravel track on almost every turn, to get car rear end initiate sliding, no matter the speed and "keyboarding the wheel" to the extreme sides. With using handbrake on turns, then beautiful sliding physics actually kick in and i can get car sliding as i expected it to behave. Also doing scandinavian flick will help, i can *sometimes* initiate with it car losing grip in turns and going into beautiful slide mode that game already has to offer (...if only you can get into it somehow). But flick is damn hard to do in race!

Would like to see losing grip in gravel and sand only having lot of speed and very agressively turning the wheel to extreme position (lame to say anything about driving feel with kb, yes!) and using throttle on strategic parts on turns. Imagine ice track (have raced it few times in real life), have a grip somewhere between ice and tarmac..and there you have gravel and sand. So yes from here too for possibility to have less grip and more oversteer to initiate beautiful sliding physics game already has (hidden)! I try to stay away from understeer, when ever i can (when not trying to drive too competitevely) :D, but ok if other like it too
(onto testing more.. and not forgetting Axarator's drifting mod ([url]http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php?topic=8813.0[/url])!). Damn, i totally missed previous update, so cannot say anything about it's driving feel.

Otherwise, good work BB and great build!


I dont know if this is weird but im a wheel user and drive am1 locked diff and on all tracks i use handbrake on nearly every corner i dont see that as a big deal, its the fastest way i find
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Devin on May 27, 2016, 02:19:39 AM
I've done more testing on tarmac now. Conclusion: No matter what, the cars understeer. So much that it's just ruining the fun entirely. Except for when I go full throttle. But then, I go to fast and which makes me go straight again instead of making the corners. So, I can choose: Going straight every corner or using the handbrake to go sideways, sliding too much and stopping, or even worse, not sliding enough, randomly snapping back into my 'lane' and go straight off the track again. It feels so unnatural and weird. No car would behave like this and after playing online with a few others, it slowly became clear that we all felt the same. I seriously wish that the cars become less under- and oversteering. Right now, they are doing both at the same time. It's just weird.

This problem existed ever since build 7, but it became worse and worse in recent updates. This makes it much harder when driving with a keyboard too, because one does not simply drift with a keyboard without losing the rear. Also, constantly having to use the handbrake isn't fun either. Is it possible to work on that for the next update? I really don't care for any other changes right now, I only want the cars to be more drivable and realistic again. And I'm surely not the only one who wants that.

Any chance we might get less understeery physics in the next update? I don't wanna try to make that into a mod because that would lock out everyone from our server who hasn't installed it while also causing to ignore our laptimes for the leaderboards obviously. I also feel like it's not something I could easily change with a mod. Having front tires actually have different grip when having the car's weight on the front is usually something that's hardcoded (or not) in the engine. Anyway, I don't really care if it's hardcoded or not, I just wish the next update would fix that :P
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 27, 2016, 04:13:31 AM
I sounds like a advanced control options problem devin. Maybe you need more speed sensitive steering with keyboard, so you turn less until under heavy braking?
Brake heavy then turn in
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: TPEHAK on May 27, 2016, 09:14:02 AM
I like the new collision physics and lightweight opponents cars, it is more forgivable and now and I can ride and ram opponents more aggressively and do not care about loosing control or speed.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: hande11 on May 27, 2016, 10:37:05 AM
I sounds like a advanced control options problem devin. Maybe you need more speed sensitive steering with keyboard, so you turn less until under heavy braking?
Brake heavy then turn in
That was good advice from Sam. To help rapid counter-steering, Speed sensitivity -setting is essential to change from default. With kb i have it in +85%. That can tackle your oversteering problem, giving control to counter steering. With kb, perhaps stability control to half to start with.
Saturation: 100% (default)
Steering Sensitivity: 100%  (default)
Speed sensitivity +85%
... and if you have too much of that damn grip, try bad condition 0/100 standard tires on tarmac to get less grip for back wheels. (does not work well for gravel + sand though, grrr..)  ;)
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Devin on May 27, 2016, 02:00:56 PM
I sounds like a advanced control options problem devin. Maybe you need more speed sensitive steering with keyboard, so you turn less until under heavy braking?
Brake heavy then turn in
You don't quite understand - a car shouldn't behave so weird in the first place. Of course, with certain settings you may make it less undrivable. But it's still bad and just wrong. Even with a steering wheel, it's just weird. I have never had to turn my wheel the full 900 degrees into a direction for EACH CORNER just to get through it. It's nothing that has to do with these settings, the physics is just wrong. And trust me on that, I've tried every setting and all the other leaderboard top drivers I have asked say exactly the same, so it's not just me  ;D
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 27, 2016, 02:31:17 PM
I sounds like a advanced control options problem devin. Maybe you need more speed sensitive steering with keyboard, so you turn less until under heavy braking?
Brake heavy then turn in
You don't quite understand - a car shouldn't behave so weird in the first place. Of course, with certain settings you may make it less undrivable. But it's still bad and just wrong. Even with a steering wheel, it's just weird. I have never had to turn my wheel the full 900 degrees into a direction for EACH CORNER just to get through it. It's nothing that has to do with these settings, the physics is just wrong. And trust me on that, I've tried every setting and all the other leaderboard top drivers I have asked say exactly the same, so it's not just me  ;D
Maybe it is not just you,doesnt mean multiple people have a strange setup though. Or maybe its just broken for certain inputs. I think it handles nice with pad,especially using rally (soft) suspension, you can feel it skating around under heavy braking and the weights moving,nice and loose. I barely steer,just steer with the rear and balance grip,never using the handbrake.

As i said maybe you are turning too much,you should never need to use 900 degrees,unless turning on the spot at low speed. 300-350 degree should be enough,with braking of course. Remember with speed steering limit it wont turn to match what you are steering,itll only turn based on speed. So 100+mph (with 100% limiter) at 900 degrees is probably only 100 degrees max.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: basti4655 on May 27, 2016, 03:15:09 PM
The physics are now so much fun and spectacular in derby, pls never change it!
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Daystar on May 27, 2016, 05:04:17 PM
My thought on this update: I really love it! main thing I love is the ai not being able to pit my car so easily anymore! in previous builds when they would "just tap" my rear quarter panel, my car would immediately be put in the stages of being pitted out! I used to also coin this game as Pushfest! because of the ai guys always pushing into my car and not deviating away from me. seems the ai is a lot more awesome with their random shenanigans! Wrecks... omg I love them now, so much more spectacular! actually love watching replays again! aka memories of the good old "ROMU engine" crash days! Oh and thanks for finally putting a start finish line into Tarmac 2 (reverse) just before the abrupt left turn wall!!! I was always worried where in heck was the line, and worried about my car piling into that sharp left turn wall!!! But still no start line at the original sandpit track  ??? Thank you so much for a fantastic update!
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Devin on May 27, 2016, 06:55:01 PM
(http://puu.sh/p72e0/c8c51adf5f.png)
(http://puu.sh/p72eI/3662524515.png)

Brian on physics after Build 6, especially in the latest update, after racing with us all night. We all thought exactly the same, some of us having done lots of motor racing in real life.

It just feels so unrealistic and no, it is NOT the steering settings. It's the cars' physics, we're all 100% sure about that
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 27, 2016, 07:02:07 PM
It seems there is some misunderstand in your topic devin "It'd be better if they gave the option of 4wd locked and 2wd". Thats not how a locked diff works,there are no 4wd options in game,RWD only.
Eitherway,gonna record you some vids now,show you how its done.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: PsychOXRat on May 27, 2016, 07:04:16 PM
Sam, if you mean that in NCG there isn't any 4WD cars, the AM1 has a locked diff that converts it to 4WD, yet no part for 2WD locked
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: BrianUK on May 27, 2016, 07:05:36 PM
It seems there is some misunderstand in your topic devin "It'd be better if they gave the option of 4wd locked and 2wd". Thats not how a locked diff works,there are no 4wd options in game,RWD only.
Eitherway,gonna record you some vids now,show you how its done.

Okay, show me how it's done. But make sure you lap faster or I'll just disregard it.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 27, 2016, 07:15:51 PM
I stand corrected on the locked diff for AM1 (shows how i often i pick the fastest car),why the hell is there even a AWD version of a RWD car,makes zero sense. Although according to bagedit power distribution for that diff is 0.9 to 0.1 rather than 1 to 0. Which could mean most of the power is still distributed to the rear.

The understeer problems you are complaining of is using AM1 with locked (AWD diff)? because i have no problems with others,admittedly i don't drive AM1 very often
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 27, 2016, 07:16:01 PM
It seems there is some misunderstand in your topic devin "It'd be better if they gave the option of 4wd locked and 2wd". Thats not how a locked diff works,there are no 4wd options in game,RWD only.
Eitherway,gonna record you some vids now,show you how its done.

AM1 locked diff is Awd : https://gyazo.com/d2892807f83063438b46a01df1653f11 read top right
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 27, 2016, 07:17:46 PM
and yes i did a test by putting my ar on its roof and seeing if it was 50/50 but its not front wheel drive is very miner maybe 2 revolutions a second
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 27, 2016, 07:19:30 PM
and yes i did a test by putting my ar on its roof and seeing if it was 50/50 but its not front wheel drive is very miner maybe 2 revolutions a second
0.9 to 0.1 according to bagedit
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: BrianUK on May 27, 2016, 07:22:10 PM
I stand corrected on the locked diff for AM1 (shows how i often i pick the fastest car),why the hell is there even a AWD version of a RWD car,makes zero sense. Although according to bagedit power distribution for that diff is 0.9 to 0.1 rather than 1 to 0. Which could mean most of the power is still distributed to the rear.

The understeer problems you are complaining of is using AM1 with locked (AWD diff)? because i have no problems with others,admittedly i don't drive AM1 very often

I tried both locked and stiff-LSD and had the same thing. Oversteer into understeer.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: sam223 on May 27, 2016, 07:25:23 PM
And the other cars brian?

P.s if you want to do lap times it'll have to be on the ovals,i don't do circuit racing
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: BrianUK on May 27, 2016, 07:28:51 PM
And the other cars brian?

P.s if you want to do lap times it'll have to be on the ovals,i don't do circuit racing

I'm going to chuck some others around the track over the weekend, I only had the cash for the AM1 last night.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: TeksWiller on May 27, 2016, 09:01:27 PM
I've seen mighty crashes and flipping cars with some trash at track playing with al after new patch:) I like also track design and 64-bit performance. Car handling is also good. You have good game at your hands (Bugbear and) Janne.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Gerty on May 27, 2016, 09:08:17 PM
I was wrong about handling. It seems now you have to find right combination of parts what suits you on particular track. Wich is interesting. And possibly I was locking the tires braking too late & too hard (is lockups simulated in wreckfest?)
I will do further testing.
I did yesterday. After all understeer issue exist, less with rally suspension, more with racing suspension. Yes I can adapt to that and have fun, but I think it needs to be worked on.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Dela on May 28, 2016, 12:42:38 AM
It's expected if u use am1 locked u should know by now they changed it 2 4wd so it bogs on starts
Wait, so AM1 is now 4WD? That makes even less sense then. 4wd should be even less understeer-y and even easier to slide. It isn't.

However, usign Rally suspension made it drivable on gravel tracks, at least for me. So possibly the suspension setup caused all this. Haven't tested tarmac tracks though, so I might be back to complain even more :P

4wd cars well most of them are well known for their understeer (subarus and audis at least).  Also you need very different driving style to slide 4wd compared to rwd. Well at least that is how it work irl.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: MamieNova on May 28, 2016, 03:40:55 AM
did my first session of time trials tonight (am1 on gravel as usual)

LSD : brake and turn : no understeer, throttling during the end of the corner won't cause any big loss of control.
locked : slight understeer going into corner, solved by throttling, which causes a slight oversteer requiring some countersteering.

(a quick AM4 try made me feel it could achieve nice times on locked using a drift style)
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: hande11 on May 28, 2016, 11:09:25 AM
My thought on this update: I really love it! main thing I love is the ai not being able to pit my car so easily anymore! in previous builds when they would "just tap" my rear quarter panel, my car would immediately be put in the stages of being pitted out! I used to also coin this game as Pushfest! because of the ai guys always pushing into my car and not deviating away from me. seems the ai is a lot more awesome with their random shenanigans! Wrecks... omg I love them now, so much more spectacular! actually love watching replays again! aka memories of the good old "ROMU engine" crash days! Oh and thanks for finally putting a start finish line into Tarmac 2 (reverse) just before the abrupt left turn wall!!! I was always worried where in heck was the line, and worried about my car piling into that sharp left turn wall!!! But still no start line at the original sandpit track  ??? Thank you so much for a fantastic update!
Haha, yes, best banger AI so far, imho! They are not just driving on exactly same lines round after round like dummy bots. Instead AI has now driving line errors (very important!) and AI banging other cars mean lot of events and fun with AI.. cool stuff now! Wonder, if one could configure "AI shenanigans" -rate in options in future (negative side could be that, it brings too much complexity for testing AI paths etc. anyway, most fun and action-packed AI now i think :) )
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on May 28, 2016, 12:06:44 PM
i have too say i dont mind the new handling u just nee too use a bit more handbrake
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Devin on May 28, 2016, 01:56:30 PM
It's expected if u use am1 locked u should know by now they changed it 2 4wd so it bogs on starts
Wait, so AM1 is now 4WD? That makes even less sense then. 4wd should be even less understeer-y and even easier to slide. It isn't.

However, usign Rally suspension made it drivable on gravel tracks, at least for me. So possibly the suspension setup caused all this. Haven't tested tarmac tracks though, so I might be back to complain even more :P

4wd cars well most of them are well known for their understeer (subarus and audis at least).  Also you need very different driving style to slide 4wd compared to rwd. Well at least that is how it work irl.
ESPECIALLY 4wd cars are easy to slide and awesome to go through corners with. When set up wrong, they may have understeer, but could still be easily drifted around corners. Not in this game, apparently. Having this problem with 4wd shows even more how bad the problem really is.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: St. Jimmy on May 28, 2016, 05:21:11 PM
Well yeah now that I've tested more and I read more carefully what the actual understeer issue is, I can agree that this game still have problems with physics. But the handling/problem has been like that for years and I don't feel any real big difference in handling. Even the magical build 6 had same kind of problems. This build actually improved from the previous builds because in Tarmac it doesn't understeer that much anymore in fast, slowly turning turns.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: MamieNova on May 28, 2016, 06:37:18 PM
what kind of speed sensitivity do you guys use ? I'm at 10% and usually, I only get understeer for a valid reason : car goes straight forward with fully turned front wheels, leaving skid marks, which does not strike me as unrealistic, it's just inertia.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Mortal on May 31, 2016, 11:55:18 PM
@Jannes

Add vibration (gamepad/wheel) when passing over a piano surface

it feels very flat.


Thanks and keep it up!
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Sword_of_Light on June 01, 2016, 10:00:30 PM
Having run a few tracks, I've observed:

The cars are a lot more bouncy and crushable - might tone that back just a tiny bit, while the Buick should roll more, and should smoosh the Mazda like its barely there, the Mazda doesn't seem to have any weight at all and bounds around like a soccer ball.  However, the damage is much more interesting, more in line with what damage used to look like about this time last year.

The AI is much more inaccurate - very pleased with this, especially on some of the more twisty tracks.  A lot more burning wrecks to dodge now.

But:

Handling has dropped - turns I made prior to this update that required a tap of the breaks now require me to lean on them.

The doughnut bug still manifests - not saying you should have fixed it (you should, eventually), but I am saying I've observed it still persists despite the update.  Its still typically only one or two cars in a field of 24, and its still restricted to derby maps, but it's still going on.

-Don
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: PsychOXRat on June 02, 2016, 01:09:21 AM
I'm pretty sure the AI doing donuts is related to the ai routes, as while moddibg my track into the game, I screwed up the ai route a bit which caused them to donut in a "lost" state
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: SquintWolf17X on June 02, 2016, 05:45:57 PM
Awesome! great job with the update.

Is it coming to ps4?
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: leziony on June 02, 2016, 06:25:47 PM
Is it coming to ps4?
Nope. It's a PC only game. MAYBE after the official relase, and even then it's a big maybe. Even then, the game has been in Pre-alpha for, what now, 4th-5th year. So yea, not coming to consoles for quite a while, if ever.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: PsychOXRat on June 02, 2016, 06:47:32 PM
Nope. It's a PC only game. MAYBE after the official relase, and even then it's a big maybe. Even then, the game has been in Pre-alpha for, what now, 4th-5th year. So yea, not coming to consoles for quite a while, if ever.
Correction, 3rd year, pre alpha released in January 2014
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Purple44 on June 02, 2016, 09:24:17 PM
I think the big money for Bugbear will be taking Wreckfest to the consoles. So I think it will happen some day. Make financial sense. But PC version got get finish first.

I hear games on the console can be downloaded now. So would that mean Bugbear can release a digital version of Wreckfest for the consoles and not need a publisher?
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: St. Jimmy on June 02, 2016, 10:18:58 PM
If they want to make a console game, they likely want to be sure it's ready and stable. At least in the last generation it costed to push an update for the game.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Tou on June 03, 2016, 05:09:47 PM
When will real content be added? It's basically the same "game" since the sneak peek.
In my eyes its nothing more than a tech demo. I feel betrayed by the developers. >:(
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Purple44 on June 03, 2016, 05:17:59 PM
When will real content be added? It's basically the same "game" since the sneak peek.
In my eyes its nothing more than a tech demo. I feel betrayed by the developers. >:(

Mixed 1 and 2 are not real content? Tarmac 2 and 3 not real content? Actually all 4 tracks are base on real world tracks.

But if referring to car content, that has been on the slow side of getting new cars added to Wreckfest.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Devin on June 04, 2016, 01:52:27 PM
We found out why the handling is so weird since after Build 6. Basically, it's because of the weird downforce (-0.1 front, 0.1 rear) that also breaks the jumps with all cars.

I tried it on the first day of modding but forgot about it. Rat randomly found that setting, reminded us all again and made a mod to see what 0 front and 0 rear would do - basically, the game feels like Build 6 again.

Could the downforce be fixed in the next build or could we at least get some options ingame to change that per car? Like car setups? That would be great :P
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: BrianUK on June 04, 2016, 02:37:04 PM
Devin requested I post this here in case it gets missed:-

It's the chassis file on each car, I'll be uploading this to the Steam Workshop after I get some feedback from testers, all of which say the cars feel more responsive now than they did before and feels like the magic Build 6

Took the AM1 on a 15 lap run on Gravel F. Same setup (locked diff, 4 speed, rally tyres/susp) as for my current board time which was made with heavy doses of handbrake.

Matched my current time of 38.77s. Car is far more responsive on turn-in through raw steering requiring no handbrake at all, and the throttle now rotates the car nicely rather than making it go straight on because the front is no longer being lifted off the floor by the erroneous front lift settings. With my current build pad settings (which are compensating for the shit understeer), I actually found my car too responsive and was constantly countering all the rotation I was able to put in. The RWD felt like RWD again and not an FF.

The jumps were also far nicer, I spent absolutely NO TIME RECOVERING FROM A SUPER-MEGA-CRAZY FLIP that was caused by a diving rear, followed by a slamming front. I took some odd bounces if I landed badly, but all others were Build 6 smooth.

100mph jump on Sandpit 1 Rt2:



Build 6 is back.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: MamieNova on June 04, 2016, 11:28:20 PM
Will give it a shot later
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: boeing767 on June 08, 2016, 11:42:40 AM
I'm very happy with this release. This is the first release where keyboard users are finnaly able to keep up... I'm playing this game mixed (sometimes with steering wheel - Logitech G25), but plainty of times also with the keyboard, because I want to do a race for just a few minutes. With the previous build it was impossible to keep up, the cars are better to control now with the keyboard! You don't lose to much speed now while turning with the keyboard.

What i'm wondering, there are plenty add-ons available, but if you want to use them you need to enable/disable them first.... Is there a way you can use them without doing this? I think this can be a big step forward to switch from the original content to the community made products and to adapt this with multiplayer servers

Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Aruzo on June 15, 2016, 02:48:21 PM
What's up BugBear!?

It's been almost a month since last activity, any news on upcoming content or updates?
21 days since SteamDB last saw activity on public/developer braches of the game....

Just checking, I'm enjoying some great mods currently but would be nice to know what we can expect from the developer's point of view in the near future :)
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Facial_Burns on June 15, 2016, 04:14:48 PM
What's up BugBear!?

It's been almost a month since last activity, any news on upcoming content or updates?
21 days since SteamDB last saw activity on public/developer braches of the game....

Just checking, I'm enjoying some great mods currently but would be nice to know what we can expect from the developer's point of view in the near future :)

How long have u been here? They never really tell us what's coming but theirs always stuff coming, a month isint that long and their were changes about 6 days ago on steam DB not a new build but at least it is something,
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Purple44 on June 15, 2016, 07:59:25 PM
July going be here soon. Pretty sure we will see one more Build release before Bugbear goes on vacation in July.

I'm curious if we will see a new car??
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Aruzo on June 15, 2016, 09:07:39 PM
What's up BugBear!?

It's been almost a month since last activity, any news on upcoming content or updates?
21 days since SteamDB last saw activity on public/developer braches of the game....

Just checking, I'm enjoying some great mods currently but would be nice to know what we can expect from the developer's point of view in the near future :)

How long have u been here? They never really tell us what's coming but theirs always stuff coming, a month isint that long and their were changes about 6 days ago on steam DB not a new build but at least it is something,

Facial, I've been owner of this game for 1,5 years already, so this is nothing new for me. Just asking around and putting some fuel to the fire since its been quite quiet here in the forums  ;D

As purple already stated, I too am hoping for a summer update before holidays, so I can enjoy all those rainy Finnish summer days playing Wreckfest inside :D
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Daystar on June 15, 2016, 10:50:30 PM
Would just like to pipe in real quick; Bugbear in the past have stated that they encourage users to ask questions.
I really hope we get to see at least 2 new tracks before August. curious how my Skypack skys will look on them!  :P

Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: RickyB on June 20, 2016, 02:00:42 PM
Just out of curiosity - could we maybe get an info about when and how long BB's summer holiday is going to be? Schools seem to have a 2 months break? (July+August). I was just wondering when not to expect any updates.
 ;)
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Aruzo on June 20, 2016, 02:11:39 PM
Just out of curiosity - could we maybe get an info about when and how long BB's summer holiday is going to be? Schools seem to have a 2 months break? (July+August). I was just wondering when not to expect any updates.
 ;)



Most likely holidays will be around 1 month (or 4 weeks), which is the standard here in Finland for most of the workers. July, or from midsummer onwards (this weekend) is the time that most of the people take their holidays.
From middle of August most of the guys tend to be back on duty again.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Purple44 on June 20, 2016, 02:32:58 PM
Last summer after Build #7 finally got release June 30, some the Bugbear Devs went on vacation and some Devs like Janne, stayed behind and did 5 hotfixes in the next 2 weeks.

So It was about 6 weeks before all the Devs got back in the Studio last summer.

I don't think the Devs will have to do a bunch of hotfixes when this next build get release, hopefully in the next 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: Purple44 on June 23, 2016, 04:40:18 AM
Hmmm, there was couple of updates to Steam today:

https://steamdb.info/app/228380/history/

Maybe Bugbear will surprise us and release next Build this week in time for the LeMash (http://steamcommunity.com/app/228380/discussions/0/) event?  :o

Having a new Build out would sure help give online a shot in the arm and maybe a Steam summer sale starting this week.
Title: Re: Update 2016-05-25
Post by: oppolo on June 23, 2016, 12:40:00 PM
hello
I drive with a G25, is there a working clutch in progress?