Bugbear Community

Wreckfest => News => Topic started by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 05:02:51 PM

Title: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 05:02:51 PM

Holiday season is almost here, and before Santa starts rumbling down the chimney it's time for a new update for Wreckfest! We've been working hard to ensure that you have something new to play with during the holiday season (because we know that's something you all love to do!), and we're happy to let you know that the update introduces a work-in-progress version of a new rally-cross type track that we're working on, offering a yet another dose of explosive neck-to-neck racing in trademark Wreckfest style. Some of you might even recognize the track!

Inspired by the new track we've also made some further refinements to our tyre model, guaranteed to give you a more responsive driving feel. Suspension setups were also reworked, and overall the cars are now more balanced and realistic than ever before. To match the physics improvements gamepad and keyboard controls were also reworked, and for the first time ever the Speed Sensitivity setting is working to help you not go over the slip angle of the tyre in order to maximize cornering ability. As always it's best to start with the default settings and work your way from there.

In other important news we've put effort in improving the offline and online performance based on the feedback we've received, our dear supporters. The dedicated server performance has been optimized, and we've improved grass and shadow rendering performance. In our typical fashion the update also contains a number of other improvements and additions under the hood, such as more user-friendly settings menu.

If it's been a while since you last check out the game now it's better time than ever to update your game and take it to the track. During the year the game has seen many updates and it's been improved dramatically with many new features added and old ones improved. Not only that, but there's currently a lively online community offering tons of action for both banger racers and gentleman type racing aficionados.

As always, thanks for your support, have a great holiday and see you on the track!

Changelog:

* Added Mixed 2, a new rally-cross type track.
* Optimized dedicated server CPU usage.
* Improved visual damage scaling with network lag.
* Improved tyre model and suspension setups.
* Tweaked gamepad and keyboard controller.
* Added effect level-of-detail models to improve performance.
* Laps are no longer count when driving in the center of Speedway 2 Inner Oval.
* Improved Racing 2 environment and art.
* Added additional sound effects to user interface.
* Added two new tabs to options (Graphics and Gameplay) with settings split from the previous Display tab.
* Added volume sliders for garage ambient sounds and interface sound effects.
* Grass setting now affects density too, and all quality levels should perform somewhat faster.
* Optimized shadow quality settings and added one more level.
* Fixed a bug in the particle quality setting.
* Made low quality cubemap slightly faster.
* Made some more settings changeable on-the-fly.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on December 18, 2015, 05:23:18 PM
This Build just went live 23 mins ago on Steam.  :D Look like I just got hoem in time to checkout the new Build. Hmmm, wasn't I planning on going to bed when I got home today from working the graveyard shift??  So I could be up in time for the "Unlimited Wrecker Rallycross" later to day.  :P

Janne should I be calling this Build #9 or Build #10?

Did the inner oval track count as Build #9?

No new car before the Christmas break? Is this last Build for this year then Janne?

Thanks Bugbear for letting us test the new builds and hotfixes more frequently.  :D :D


Edit: only about a 2min download

Edit 2:  Need to remap your Controls buttons. I need to get the right button for handbrake and in-game chat. :P

Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Tonza on December 18, 2015, 05:27:52 PM
We've been spoiled with these updates lately :)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: BenDover on December 18, 2015, 05:39:33 PM
When I go to 3rd gear I have no longer controll of my car. (Cant steer) I have xbox 360 pad.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: St. Jimmy on December 18, 2015, 05:44:03 PM
Holy moly a new build :o
Post some videos and screens from the Mixed 2. I can get to my computer couple days after the new year so I've long time to wait and see things :P
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: DD-Indeed on December 18, 2015, 05:55:02 PM
Fast thoughts and cons:


Mixed 2 is great track, but it's like 50 % done.


And you need to make hotfix soon, the game runs now badly and the throttle works very oddly.


EDIT: Game used to run at 80-90 fps on the menu itself, now it's 38-44. :s
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: The Very End on December 18, 2015, 06:09:47 PM
Thanks for the update! :D
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 06:14:19 PM
BenDover
Which car, and in what situation? You could try lowering Speed Sensitivity for gamepad.

Purple
No idea honestly with our expedited update rate, maybe just call it a build :)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: BrianUK on December 18, 2015, 06:18:39 PM
Understeer is dreadful. Can we have yesterday's handling back pl0x. All we needed was the suspension sorting and it was good to go. I don't know why big handling changes don't get given to us to test.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: kickstart on December 18, 2015, 06:26:20 PM
When we can use the clutch paddle?
Is that planned?
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: BenDover on December 18, 2015, 06:35:16 PM
BenDover
Which car, and in what situation? You could try lowering Speed Sensitivity for gamepad.

Purple
No idea honestly with our expedited update rate, maybe just call it a build :)

AM3, I will try to do so. Thanks.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: mazeGCHQ on December 18, 2015, 06:58:19 PM
Please Please  Return to previous version My cars are un-driveable sooo slow, the gears and very long I can't get out of 3rd gear on most tracks.  all the off the cars are moving in a slow motion when passing me including my own car seem so slow...
I loved this game yesterday, Now I cant even come to race it's that bad!!!!

Such a shame as this was a brilliant little racing /wreaking game...

Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Daystar on December 18, 2015, 07:17:30 PM
I am digging the new Mixed 2 track! Great job Bugbear... I know it's still in development, but I love the layout!

Having no issues with FPS, or car handling! Cool Update!
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Marky on December 18, 2015, 07:21:45 PM
Initial testing of the dedicated server isn't really yielding in much of a result.

Still choppy with me and 23 bots, for no real reason other than the multi-core threading probably still isn't activated or working.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: sam223 on December 18, 2015, 07:22:16 PM
Understeer is dreadful. Can we have yesterday's handling back pl0x. All we needed was the suspension sorting and it was good to go. I don't know why big handling changes don't get given to us to test.
When I go to 3rd gear I have no longer controll of my car. (Cant steer) I have xbox 360 pad.

advanced controller options got reset again,might be something to do with it?
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: duggy on December 18, 2015, 07:26:33 PM
great update.the handling gets better and better. Im using a wheel so I guess the folks complaining about the handling must be using xbox controllers or keyboard. the new track is even better than mixed 1. keep the good work coming bugbear
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 07:27:00 PM
As for the handling, I think it mostly depends on how you're used to driving. I daresay the handling we now have is the most realistic we've had to-date. Of course work still continues on it so it's not final.

Initial testing of the dedicated server isn't really yielding in much of a result.

Still choppy with me and 23 bots, for no real reason other than the multi-core threading probably still isn't activated or working.

That's a shame. Our initial tests with 23 bots the performance seemed pretty good (no issues).

Threading is supported and active, although the server software has been stripped of all unnecessary stuff so it's mostly the main thread that's taking the processing time.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: duggy on December 18, 2015, 07:30:46 PM


Quote from sam223
advanced controller options got reset again,might be something to do with it?


I find with every new build I have to reset the advanced controller options.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: BrianUK on December 18, 2015, 07:33:12 PM
Understeer is dreadful. Can we have yesterday's handling back pl0x. All we needed was the suspension sorting and it was good to go. I don't know why big handling changes don't get given to us to test.
When I go to 3rd gear I have no longer controll of my car. (Cant steer) I have xbox 360 pad.

advanced controller options got reset again,might be something to do with it?

I put my settings back to what I had pre-update, and that is what I based my opinion on. Something has massively changed, and it's not for the better.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Orbotnive T on December 18, 2015, 07:37:16 PM
After a fairly long break since I couldn't control the car how I liked on any slider setting, I can find driveable settings again- woo.

I'm still complete crap at it, up to in the old top 4 days a few builds back but the car doesn't have mandatory and irrefutable snap  over/understeer anymore it seems :D I bet with some more tweaking I can make it better still.

It's a shame and slightly strange how each build makes some peoples experince better, and some worse. I'm not happy about Brians problems at all but if you did set it back I don't think I'd be putting the game on again, like the last few weeks. That's just a statement based on showing polarity of opinion about the two builds.

What's the core changes to the large variation in response to the handling/setting tweaks I wonder, what's going on behind the scenes with it?  It seems to me as if it's about more than preferred default driving style or control more about possible control but maybe I'm wrong.. Well personally it was hell trying to get the car to drive before though and it isn't now. Gamepad.



Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Marky on December 18, 2015, 07:38:21 PM
As for the handling, I think it mostly depends on how you're used to driving. I daresay the handling we now have is the most realistic we've had to-date. Of course work still continues on it so it's not final.

Initial testing of the dedicated server isn't really yielding in much of a result.

Still choppy with me and 23 bots, for no real reason other than the multi-core threading probably still isn't activated or working.

That's a shame. Our initial tests with 23 bots the performance seemed pretty good (no issues).

Threading is supported and active, although the server software has been stripped of all unnecessary stuff so it's mostly the main thread that's taking the processing time.

As I've mentioned in a PM, I'd invite you to add me on Steam in order to see the issues first-hand and attempt to address them.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Jake97 on December 18, 2015, 08:37:34 PM
This is a nice update thank you :) Any new cars coming into the mix soon?? Had a fair few tracks lately so a car or 2 would be nice :D Again great work
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: rwb on December 18, 2015, 08:46:00 PM
Updates today feel excellent with a wheel, balance between heavy and light cars is much better, and feels more responsive and fluid. I did try driving with keyboard earlier just to check the new track, and it was pretty tough with the defaults, but I don't have much frame of reference for how it felt previously. Love the track, though.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: OutLoud on December 18, 2015, 09:01:46 PM
The driving with keyboard is very nice, thanks!

But the AI is "a little" slow  :o (Tarmac 2)

(http://i.imgur.com/dzNQYSn.png)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on December 18, 2015, 09:27:31 PM
The Muscle 4 on the new Mixed 2 track is a good combo for me. I won 2 races this morning online. :D

But if I wear out them tires, then I have some trouble making the turns!!
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 09:30:21 PM
Regarding the handling, you should try with default settings especially if you're playing with a gamepad or a keyboard. This is because there's been quite some fundamental changes under the hood with the cars now being much more balanced as opposed to oversteer heavy like before. Slip angle simulation has also changed, and the tyre now reacts very well even to quite small steering movements. This in turn means that lowering the speed sensitivity in the settings doesn't mean that the car will turn better like earlier on when the car would turn by the tail losing grip, instead the car will just become too twitchy and more often than not actually turn worse because the front tires will go over the slip angle (causing understeer) the moment you touch the stick. The rationale behind steering sensitivity feature is exactly that: it helps you not to exceed the slip angle, thus maintaining grip.

Marky
Sorry for not getting back to you regarding your last message, I haven't forgotten but we've been extremely busy to get the update out before holidays. I'll talk to you soon!

Jake97
Sure! We have a couple of new cars in production but just couldn't get either of them to a presentable shape before the holidays.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Hoppen on December 18, 2015, 09:48:51 PM
Love the new update. Mixed 2 is absolutely fantastic, and handling to me feels okay on an xbox 360 controller after a few tweaks to the settings.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 09:52:33 PM
I really like the new track as well, although it would be even better with some elevation changes it's an interesting track, being very difficult to master.

Mind sharing what kind of tweaks? Would love to give them a go just for comparison if nothing else.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: St. Jimmy on December 18, 2015, 10:04:45 PM
Sounds good when I read Janne's post about the understeer. It has felt like that when you reach the too much steering that brings understeer, it doesn't matter if you then turn 75% or 100% the wheel, it feels the same and still steers pretty OK. Sounds good but still can't test fot a while.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Daystar on December 18, 2015, 10:21:55 PM
I really like the new track as well, although it would be even better with some elevation changes it's an interesting track, being very difficult to master.

Mind sharing what kind of tweaks? Would love to give them a go just for comparison if nothing else.

Hi Janne!

Well you know I am a keyboard racer.. but with my settings (tweaks) it's smooth sailing for me, and works like a charm Via Keyboard...
so here goes -

Car: either AM1 or AM3 is suitable!
Drive train: open diffs
Suspension: soft

Parts: all race performance parts of course lol!

Have fun!

Edit: Forgot to mention... no assists on!
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: lobsterfran on December 18, 2015, 10:22:23 PM

Sure! We have a couple of new cars in production but just couldn't get either of them to a presentable shape before the holidays.

Wouldn't bother me. Not one of my cars has ever finished a race in a 'presentable' shape.  :P
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Hoppen on December 18, 2015, 10:29:28 PM
I really like the new track as well, although it would be even better with some elevation changes it's an interesting track, being very difficult to master.

Mind sharing what kind of tweaks? Would love to give them a go just for comparison if nothing else.

Some elevation changes could definitely improve it, and you're right, it will be difficult to master, which is what I love about it, lots of tight and interesting corners, and a lot of surface changes between dirt and tarmac. (I love the texture on the dirt, it looks great!)

For tweaks, I felt I had to reduce the speed sensitivity from the 100% default down to about 85-90%, before this update I was sitting at 80%, I also increased steering sensitivity to 50%, I had been using 0% on that.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: DD-Indeed on December 18, 2015, 10:34:45 PM
*removed*
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 10:50:22 PM
Thanks Michael! I'll give you setup a go. The differential (and suspension of course) has a drastic impact on how the car the behaves. Stiff suspension often makes the car easier to control because it reduces roll.

Hoppen, I too feel that around 90% speed sensitivity is the sweet spot. That said having speed sensitivity at 100% makes the car easier to control for the non-initiated, which is why we went with it as default. Even so it's largely down to your driving style, and in the end, what you get used to. We were somewhat worried that you guys would react negatively to the handling changes, but I'm hoping that people will give it some time to get used to it. Personally I feel it's much improved compared to what we've ever had.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 18, 2015, 10:52:58 PM
DD-Indeed, what are your system specs? Any more details on the performance drop?
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Daystar on December 18, 2015, 11:07:33 PM
Yeah Janne, I was under the impression that when you use stiff suspension, it drops the car lower to the ground and is riskier becuase of lowered clearance over ground objects such as pylons, tires, car debris, speep bumps (aka: Tarmac 2 track) !!! but I will give stiff suspension a go on some dirt circuits later on tonight to test.

Also.. keyboard handling is better in this build! I can safely race with all assists off, and over steer is greatly reduced! Great job Team Bugbear!!! (http://img09.deviantart.net/82ea/i/2004/246/4/1/viking_drinking_beer.gif)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: DD-Indeed on December 18, 2015, 11:47:04 PM
*removed*
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on December 19, 2015, 12:17:07 AM
I really like the new track as well, although it would be even better with some elevation changes it's an interesting track, being very difficult to master.




Started a new thread:

Discussion of the new Mixed 2 track design. (http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,8472.0.html)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: sam223 on December 19, 2015, 01:08:34 AM
Driving feels nice still, im using 40% speed sensitivity,6% deadzone,ps3 pad (locked diff,soft suspension). I like the new track aswell.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on December 19, 2015, 01:41:59 AM
Is this a new track coming? Was uploaded after the first public upload this morning with the new Mixed 2 track:

Changed Stats schema

stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.dnf_count/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.dnf_count/displayName: Valkenswaard dnf count
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.finished_count/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.finished_count/displayName: Valkenswaard finished count
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.hours_driven/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.hours_driven/displayName: Valkenswaard hours driven
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.kilometers_driven/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.kilometers_driven/displayName: Valkenswaard kilometers driven
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.top_speed_kmh/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.top_speed_kmh/displayName: Valkenswaard top speed kmh


https://steamdb.info/app/228380/history/
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Mopower on December 19, 2015, 02:40:20 AM
Played with the AM4. I feel I've reached a similar conclusion to brian. For that car to whip a 180 degree turn now seems damn near impossible. The understeer makes the game car feel really awkward, and the game feels as though the rear tires are pivoting to counter the oversteer... As soon as I get the rear tires to spin, the front end starts to come over with the ass end making turning around corners a bear.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: KingOfTheCakes on December 19, 2015, 02:57:57 AM
Great update once again, but... will the mechanical damage be tweaked again at some point please? It feels as if you receive too much damage from when you're either nudging or hitting slower cars.

I miss doing this, and also that camera view:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdsyFkZH3U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdsyFkZH3U)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: happyrichie on December 19, 2015, 03:13:57 AM
Fast thoughts and cons:

And you need to make hotfix soon, the game runs now badly and the throttle works very oddly.


this^^

dont know what it is but when i red line in a gear i loose speed with full throttle, half throttle and i max out the gear with a higher speed, very odd other wise things bin going ok.

i like mixed 2, bit flat but thats ok, the billboards at the end of the last bend can get in the way of 3rd person driving,  i hope you make some of the walls destructible like the 2nd 2 last bend, that rail in the middle of the track, would be real sweet if i could drill a car through it and out on 2 the outside line and just in general, like after the long straight and into the real tight right bend, that bends just gona get blocked with 24 dirty players unless we can cut or destroy some of that wall.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Daystar on December 19, 2015, 03:16:18 AM
Is this a new track coming? Was uploaded after the first public upload this morning with the new Mixed 2 track:

Changed Stats schema

stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.dnf_count/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.dnf_count/displayName: Valkenswaard dnf count
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.finished_count/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.finished_count/displayName: Valkenswaard finished count
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.hours_driven/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.hours_driven/displayName: Valkenswaard hours driven
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.kilometers_driven/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.kilometers_driven/displayName: Valkenswaard kilometers driven
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.top_speed_kmh/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.top_speed_kmh/displayName: Valkenswaard top speed kmh


[url]https://steamdb.info/app/228380/history/[/url]


Now that's a good question Purple...

I tried locating a bigger pic but had no luck. this track looks cool minus the motorcross section.
curious if they keep the little lakes intact. looks like a fun track  to me. if we get that track that is.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/o0s3o4.jpg)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: vinno on December 19, 2015, 03:18:59 AM
Is this a new track coming? Was uploaded after the first public upload this morning with the new Mixed 2 track:

Changed Stats schema

stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.dnf_count/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.dnf_count/displayName: Valkenswaard dnf count
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.finished_count/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.finished_count/displayName: Valkenswaard finished count
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.hours_driven/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.hours_driven/displayName: Valkenswaard hours driven
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.kilometers_driven/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.kilometers_driven/displayName: Valkenswaard kilometers driven
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.top_speed_kmh/defaultvalue: 0
stats/Data/Art/Levels/GameplaySet/Track_Deposit/Valkenswaard/.top_speed_kmh/displayName: Valkenswaard top speed kmh


[url]https://steamdb.info/app/228380/history/[/url] ([url]https://steamdb.info/app/228380/history/[/url])


that is actually mixed 2. that is the real life name of the track mixed 2 is based on.(http://trackreviewers.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Eurocircuit.jpg)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: happyrichie on December 19, 2015, 03:19:18 AM
Great update once again, but... will the mechanical damage be tweaked again at some point please? It feels as if you receive too much damage from when you're either nudging or hitting slower cars.

and this^^

i was trolled by a reverse driver with speed limiter on, i was hitting him at 90mph and i lost my front end, the slow reverse driver survived, front end of cars could be a bit stronger when driving fast, need 1 shot dnf's too, also great work with the inner oval, loads people lovin that track.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: DD-Indeed on December 19, 2015, 03:36:38 AM
*removed*
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: MamieNova on December 19, 2015, 04:02:32 AM
for what it's worth, my former E21 bmw did the same when I overreved, if I'm not mistaken, there are usually limiters to avoid damage to the engine. So it might be on purpose =D
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Mopower on December 19, 2015, 04:08:42 AM
for what it's worth, my former E21 bmw did the same when I overreved, if I'm not mistaken, there are usually limiters to avoid damage to the engine. So it might be on purpose =D

I can guaran-damn-tee you that none of the American motors they have in the game if they were based on 60's and 70's cars had rev limiters from the factory. They can be installed, but definitely not there from the factory. Nowadays, pretty much every vehicle has one. Back then, I don't think any of these cars would've had rev limiters.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: MamieNova on December 19, 2015, 06:09:17 AM
I seem to remember reading such a system being added "soon" in the automotive history, to avoid engines going out of control at the stop lights. However, that's from memory (probably from my muscle cars craze a decade ago).
I don't remember much more, but I'd find it odd that it waited ~80 years to appear. Google hits a lot of pages talking about limiters in neutral; that would make sense about the stop lights.

I'll look into it tomorrow when I have the time, I'm definitely not feeling google-lucky right now =D

My guts still sound very alarmed at the idea of 300+ bhp engines being able to overrev into auto-combustion though, especially since I'd want some 60s muscle in my life ^^
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: rwb on December 19, 2015, 06:46:31 AM
I do notice something weird bouncing off the rev limiter on the start line in the euro1, instead of a normal bounce it will drop way down when it hits cutoff, could be related.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: TPEHAK on December 19, 2015, 06:50:21 AM
It looks like Christmas comes a week earlier. Thanks you Bugbear!
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: sbdesign69 on December 19, 2015, 07:19:34 AM
The update is good, but the sound of American engines is really far from reality! This is very unfortunate because it is the first game that was a realistic engine sound.
Does any one to remove two spark plugs in the 350 ????
I do not know what is, but is certainly not the sound of an engine manufactured in Detroit.
The cars have not 1000hp! why they are ????
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on December 19, 2015, 10:06:42 AM
Just did some testing and I see the tire still falling off to soon in my opinion. I reach a red damage indicator and tire come off. I think this discourage rough racing if tire going to fall off early.

(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/Next%20Car%20Game/tire-fall-off.jpg)

I would like the damage indicator go to one more level ( maroon ) before tire falls off. I like it that the tires can fall off the cars, just the last 2 Builds it feels the tire fall off to soon for a rough racing game!!
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Ste@mroll on December 19, 2015, 10:17:27 AM
Cars handle real well now with a gamepad. I like that the cars have more character to them now with their individual handling, Euros being more handling focused while Americans are all about POWAH.

The big issue I have with this update is the way the engines work now. Euro 3 is fine from my experience but every other car acts far worse than the previous build version. Euro 1 has an annoying lag off the redline on starts like the thing doesn't want to be anywhere near the top to the tachometer, and it really hurts it off the line compared to the other cars. The American cars also shouldn't be acting like they're rally cars, I think right now the engines rev to redline WAY too quickly.

Here's a video for reference of what an Oldsmobile 455 ci V8 sounds like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAOHRsyUZLA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAOHRsyUZLA)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on December 19, 2015, 10:20:52 AM
Played with the AM4. I feel I've reached a similar conclusion to brian. For that car to whip a 180 degree turn now seems damn near impossible. The understeer makes the game car feel really awkward, and the game feels as though the rear tires are pivoting to counter the oversteer... As soon as I get the rear tires to spin, the front end starts to come over with the ass end making turning around corners a bear.


If I time it right with the a tap of the handbrake, I get the Muscle 4 car rearend to break loose and I can drift around the dirt hairpin on the new Mixed 2 track. :) I use a DFGT wheel with no assists.


************

I watch this video of the Valkenswaard track and it look to me this is a race where you got take the alternative route ( right side of of divider ) sometime doing the race. Am I correct?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-td1X9Bseg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-td1X9Bseg)

Would be interesting to do an alternative route online, but would think it be tough for Bugbear to code the checkpoints to handled doing an alternative route that can be taken on any lap. And probably would need a warning on last lap that player need to take alternative route if player has not done it yet in the previous laps.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Ste@mroll on December 19, 2015, 10:33:55 AM
Played with the AM4. I feel I've reached a similar conclusion to brian. For that car to whip a 180 degree turn now seems damn near impossible. The understeer makes the game car feel really awkward, and the game feels as though the rear tires are pivoting to counter the oversteer... As soon as I get the rear tires to spin, the front end starts to come over with the ass end making turning around corners a bear.

If I time it right with the a tap of the handbrake, I get the Muscle 4 car rearend to break loose and I can drift around the dirt hairpin on the new Mixed 2 track. :) I use a DFGT wheel with no assists.

Timing of the handbrake is really important with that car, but I agree with Mopower and Brian in that it drives like a washing machine. It is basically impossible to get the car to roll through a corner without the handbrake, like all the car wants to do is drive in a straight line.

Meanwhile AM1 got a complete handling overhaul in my mind and it actually rolls through corners without needing to handbrake or wheel the car like a madman to keep control. It can powerslide through corners if you want it to, or it can just drive through them normally as long as you don't steer too hard trying to kick the back end out. It's something I like about that car in this build, it has more control to it but not enough to make it feel like you're in 100% control of the car's behavior in the turns.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: rwb on December 19, 2015, 04:10:28 PM
I feel like it must be a problem with speed sensitivity on gamepads, because I have none of these problems. AM4 needs to be turned in more gently than others because it's heavy, but neither it nor any other car has an inherent problem getting through a tight turn.

Again, FFB is feeling excellent, and with a wheel I can get pretty much whatever movement I want out of any of the cars. There's still a bigger gap than I'd like between ffb strength for heavy and light vehicles, but the slip angle changes have softened the hard edges of grip and lessened that difference at least at speed.

Also, one thing I keep forgetting: at some point the 3rd-person view stopped looking backwards automatically when reversing, and I can't stand this. I use this view for derby sometimes, so when driving backwards, I have to hold a button on the face of my wheel as it tries to saw itself out of my hands, which is terrible. If we can't have a view that automatically switches based on direction of travel, we need a better solution than this.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: bungal#341 on December 19, 2015, 04:35:07 PM
HI devs is there a Clutch going in the game ??
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: TeksWiller on December 19, 2015, 10:16:42 PM
Thanks for great update. Especially for performance. I can now nearly max out game with 2xmsaa and low particles and medium shadows with my gtx750ti oc and phenom ii 960t and 8gb ddr2 800mhz and 1080p monitor. I think that is caused with optimizing shadow quality. I was used to see under 30 fps with shadows on, but now its smooth when 24 bots crashing at screen:)

Driving model is good with Logitech DFGT at cockpit view. I've been playing much Dirt Rally and I think Wreckfest models RWD cars feeling better. I use 45% ffb effects ingame, at profiler ewerything must be default (in my opinion).

Thanks Bugbear and Good Christmas Holiday!:D
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: NeatNit on December 19, 2015, 11:55:36 PM
Just a quick note about the latest blog post, it appears in the blog homepage but its direct link gives a 404: http://nextcargame.com/new-track-released/ (http://nextcargame.com/new-track-released/) http://nextcargame.com/blog/ (http://nextcargame.com/blog/)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 20, 2015, 12:10:54 AM
Thanks, should be fixed now.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Axarator on December 20, 2015, 01:13:38 AM
When is our modding support update going to be released? At least one tool or something.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: sam223 on December 20, 2015, 01:33:06 AM
When is our modding support update going to be released? At least one tool or something.
Now Errol is gone,all hope on the modding front seems to be lost. Hopefully official tools soon.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: WorldofBay on December 20, 2015, 01:53:14 AM
When is our modding support update going to be released? At least one tool or something.
Now Errol is gone,all hope on the modding front seems to be lost. Hopefully official tools soon.

i would do something but everytime i look at the file structure of this game i'm just like "what the hell?" and lose my motivation.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 20, 2015, 11:54:44 AM
What happened to Errol?

No official word on the modding tools at this point, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: C2S on December 20, 2015, 01:41:05 PM
From my limited experience (and I don't mean to berate him at all): Errol tends to take on numerous projects over time, some of which he will finish, while others may become abandoned or suspended, either due to loss of interest or focus required on the newer projects. I don't know the state of the tool he developed for Wreckfest, is it possible that he considers it finished?

Anyhow, it's entirely possible that some day he suddenly returns to work on it more (or start a new project, heh). :-)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Needles Kane on December 20, 2015, 01:50:21 PM
What happened to Errol?

No official word on the modding tools at this point, I'm afraid.

At Carmageddon forum Errol said he is busy in real life, so he has not had time to make modding tools. Also I think he is interested mainly Carma modding, so making WF mod tools might get some time.

From my limited experience (and I don't mean to berate him at all): Errol tends to take on numerous projects over time, some of which he will finish, while others may become abandoned or suspended, either due to loss of interest or focus required on the newer projects. I don't know the state of the tool he developed for Wreckfest, is it possible that he considers it finished?
Anyhow, it's entirely possible that some day he suddenly returns to work on it more (or start a new project, heh). :-)

I think WF texture tool is finished. I still wishing WF support for Flummery. While not most handy tool, atleast it is functional and helped modders to make mod vehicles for Carma.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Firebird on December 20, 2015, 03:22:13 PM
I haven't played a lot of the new update so far. Still getting used to the new driving but starting to get used to it.
The dedicated server is a lot less heavy now. CPU usage has gone from 30% to 18-20% (18 players). Idle server only uses a few percent usage.
Mb sent out can sometimes reach 7.1Mb for 18 players which is a little higher than before, but still runs good for the players I believe.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on December 20, 2015, 03:59:31 PM
From my limited experience (and I don't mean to berate him at all): Errol tends to take on numerous projects over time, some of which he will finish, while others may become abandoned or suspended, either due to loss of interest or focus required on the newer projects. I don't know the state of the tool he developed for Wreckfest, is it possible that he considers it finished?

Anyhow, it's entirely possible that some day he suddenly returns to work on it more (or start a new project, heh). :-)

It's totally understandable, modding is just a hobby but it can become a burden if you have many projects with a lot of users expecting constant updates. At that point it might become more of a job and then it's not fun anymore and quite literally not worth it because you're usually not getting paid for it. I think the most important thing is that someone takes an initiative and releases something useful for other people to build on and possibly eventually develop something even better.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: hande11 on December 20, 2015, 05:21:17 PM
Had just very short session, but i liked car handling, especially sliding / drifting in corners in gravel. Only tested AM1 on Gravel track with keyboard. Car seems to have greater/better momentum ("as in trajectory"), when it loses grip on gravel, hence sliding feels more realistic. No assists on, default parts, default keyboard settings, except Speed sensitivity between 80-90% which helps countersteering when sliding.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Mortal on December 20, 2015, 05:28:50 PM

With this update, I feel the car to scrape the walls peak rise to fly with relative ease, other thing, you can reduce the self-centering of dough when the car is in the air?, to make it more natural to the reaction of the physical and inertia, looks a little artificial as self-centered in the air or barrel turns, I do not like this forced effect. (my settings is withoud helps, all off)

Please jannes, a suggestion, you tried Dirt Rally? because they add vibration on the gamepad when these in sand surfaces etc, and some additional behavior patterns in dirt for example when the car sideslip command with a different pattern vibrates more powerfully and a pattern of time, this will It gives a lot of depth to the gaming experience, and I'm sure it would be something nice for wreckfest. Try it please.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: sam223 on December 20, 2015, 06:25:25 PM
What happened to Errol?

No official word on the modding tools at this point, I'm afraid.
No time i think,and he doesn't play wreckfest so motivation has probably diminished. Last time we spoke he was frustrated that he was stuck on a certain part of the .scne file and needed a few pointers. He said he'd pmed a dev about it but got no reply so he'd given up working on the .scne formats due to lack of time and dev input.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Mopower on December 21, 2015, 11:41:14 AM
It isn't just high speed cornering that I'm talking about.  I can mash it in first or second gear on small stadium and the rear ties will roast, but still wants to nose dive. I've adjusted my settings to about the most comfortable I can with very little speed sensitivity and it's better, but not great
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: rhamm on December 21, 2015, 06:34:52 PM
I'm not really a fan of Mixed 2  mainly because of the narrow, walled hairpin that turns into a funnel. Might work in real life with 6 car folk race heats but I don't think it works at all here with 24 cars in it's present form.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: sam223 on December 21, 2015, 06:54:29 PM
I'm not really a fan of Mixed 2  mainly because of the narrow, walled hairpin that turns into a funnel. Might work in real life with 6 car folk race heats but I don't think it works at all here with 24 cars in it's present form.
Thats one of my favorite parts of the track :) Gets completely blocked so easily. Great in 24 player online races when you are the last guy piling into the blockage,only to reverse out and then pile in again and again until you can get through. Great wrecking fun.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Firebird on December 21, 2015, 07:13:03 PM
With the right drivers Mixed 2 is really fun, I don't think it needs any changes apart from polishing up and fixing the cuts. Makes a nice change from the bigger tracks.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on December 21, 2015, 07:39:33 PM
I'm not really a fan of Mixed 2  mainly because of the narrow, walled hairpin that turns into a funnel. Might work in real life with 6 car folk race heats but I don't think it works at all here with 24 cars in it's present form.
Thats one of my favorite parts of the track :) Gets completely blocked so easily. Great in 24 player online races when you are the last guy piling into the blockage,only to reverse out and then pile in again and again until you can get through. Great wrecking fun.

I'm with Sam, we need some chaos in Wreckfest racing online. :)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: DD-Indeed on December 21, 2015, 08:01:17 PM
I'm not really a fan of Mixed 2  mainly because of the narrow, walled hairpin that turns into a funnel. Might work in real life with 6 car folk race heats but I don't think it works at all here with 24 cars in it's present form.
Thats one of my favorite parts of the track :) Gets completely blocked so easily. Great in 24 player online races when you are the last guy piling into the blockage,only to reverse out and then pile in again and again until you can get through. Great wrecking fun.

I'm with Sam, we need some chaos in Wreckfest racing online. :)


Bumb you guys +1 :)
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: rhamm on December 21, 2015, 09:36:58 PM
I'm thinking about offline career mode where a person won't have any chance of winning a race there from the back due to the big traffic jam.  They'll also have the crap torn out of their car and have to repair it and have no chance of winning.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: WorldofBay on December 21, 2015, 11:33:35 PM
and ... ?

you don't only race to win and career shouldn't emphasize on winning. being midfield is totally ok and makes a lot more fun. i hate it to be too fast. driving artificially bad is no fun at all.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: rhamm on December 21, 2015, 11:54:58 PM
I don't have a problem finishing midpack, I have a problem finishing midpack regardless of skill. It doesn't make sense to have a track that can't be won at if you get a bad grid spot, especially with no in game qualifying heats.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: hande11 on December 22, 2015, 12:41:45 AM
I'm not really a fan of Mixed 2  mainly because of the narrow, walled hairpin that turns into a funnel. Might work in real life with 6 car folk race heats but I don't think it works at all here with 24 cars in it's present form.
That is valid observation and good you took it to discuss to further think how to handle for example in career mode. But as some others said, not all tracks need to work with 24XAI in a sense of clearance of free driving. Very good to have short/narrow/tight-cornered tracks too. If one puts there 24XAI it could cause serious pileups as in nature of that track and/or because AI's AI is imperfect (always to some degree). Still this "24xAI-problematic" track kind of works beautifully.

Gamer / game in Career mode / preferences could always set lesser AI amount for those tracks, if needed . Many folks also like to plow through AI pile ups, on these shorter tracks with tighter turns. Rewarding yes - regardless of ending position on finnish line.  And then some like very competitive and clean driving - rewarding too. Settings, Career game modes/track options ("24xAI mayhem", "8x folkrace", for example) and different tracks could cater all i'd say :) Maybe Bugbear can also create AI aggressiviness (pileup contributing) profiles: "Wrecker/Banger AI", "Clean racing AI", "Mixed/Random AI", etc. But yes, new totally different tracks should not be abandoned, because 24XAI wont drive it Clean and withouth hassle. Just counter (and enable) this, if one wish, with driving that track with lesser AI amount.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: rhamm on December 22, 2015, 02:23:00 AM
I agree with that.  It'll be interesting to see what Bugbear does with it.  I doubt I said anything they didn't already know.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Mopower on December 22, 2015, 12:12:39 PM
I gotta be honest here.  The derbying aspect had kinda gone down the tubes. The cars don't last long, and you win by sandbagging. I feel that damage should favor the hitter to a point.   Is no fun when you go balls out, do all the hitting and get little reward for your efforts. Hitting nose to nose is more punishing for the hitter now.  The cars need strength that isn't just based on their weight and some cars will be stronger in the front than they will be in the back.

This brings me to my next subject that for derbying and banger racing, different builds rules should be allowed in terms of car strength, but will also add weight which will moat likely reduce performance.  I'd like to see 3 different build classes.

 Stock, semi- stock, and mod.

Stock is obviously just the car being it's normal self, 

Semi-stock would add double the strength to the front, and something like 50% more to the rear of the car

And mod would add triple or quadruple of stock front end strength and double the stock rear end strength.  Obviously your side makers would be stronger too.

This can be done in real life through welding.  Welding steel straps on all the body seams such as doors,  trunk lid, hood,  fenders.  Seam welding the frame,  hardnosing reinforced steel bumpers to the frame by welding to make sure they don't fall off,  adding steal plates to the frame and kickers which are steel square or round tubes from the dash bar, through the firewall onto the frame. Reinforced a-arms could help keep your front tires from wanting to camber in and fall off. There's much more, but that's the basic stuff.

It could bring life back to derbying in this game and it could certainly enhance banger racing.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Aruzo on December 22, 2015, 12:50:18 PM
Since the last update there has been two new updates in the developer build of the game.
https://steamdb.info/app/228380/history/

Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: WorldofBay on December 22, 2015, 05:15:10 PM
Is no fun when you go balls out, do all the hitting and get little reward for your efforts. Hitting nose to nose is more punishing for the hitter now.  The cars need strength that isn't just based on their weight and some cars will be stronger in the front than they will be in the back.

yeah currently it's 1 big hit and you're almost done. i mean dealing 1 big hit, not receiving. that is weird in a banger racing game.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Firebird on December 22, 2015, 07:46:08 PM
Since getting used to the new handling I decide to try out all the cars again today. Used stock suspension but some cars have engine and exhaust upgrades.

European 1
(http://i.imgur.com/yWQJjFu.png)
A fun little nimble car. Suits tracks such as Mixed and Tarmac 1 but quite vulnerable to the bigger beasts out there. Get a lobby of these on Kaanaa and you'll have some close bumper to bumper racing.

European 2
(http://i.imgur.com/NKuxmoz.png)
Improved drastically since the last time I tried it. The car handles well but I couldn't keep up on Mixed 2 with the muscles acceleration wise. An ok medium size car for medium tracks.

European 3
(http://i.imgur.com/WQ8d2BB.png)
A little beast with the racing ohc engine. Tail happy but quick on the track nonetheless and is a favourite purely to fact it's an Escort.

American 1
(http://i.imgur.com/DyKBR7v.png)
The all-rounder it seems currently. Stock B class setup is plenty quick and has no problem with small tracks such as Kaanaa or your flatout Sandpit 1. Handling wise it's like the Euro 3's American cousin but on steroids. My choice for most races.

American 2
(http://i.imgur.com/NBfzt2n.png)
The old sedan. Not competitive in most races but still a popular choice probably to the fact it's a tank out on the track. The car has got slight understeer and is slow due to the smaller V8 and weight.

American 3
(http://i.imgur.com/APh3qlI.png)
What used to be called American Muscle 2 and was the setter in all the top times. Still retains it's drifty characteristic but has lost some of the top-end speed recently. I haven't had loads of experience with this car however.

American 4
(http://i.imgur.com/8owfJpp.png)
The weightier feeling one of the American muscles. Trades blows with American 1 but handling feels softer and is slower to respond. Still a quick car however once you learn how to steer it. Seems to bottom out often on Sandpit 1 though.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Ste@mroll on December 22, 2015, 09:19:19 PM
Slight complaint with the posted 0-60 times. The stats state cars can hit 0-60 in the range of 3.7 to 4 seconds but in reality they're closer to the 5.8 to 6 second range like a car of their performance should be getting. Transmission selection also plays a huge part in it but in most cases the Racing transmissions actually slow the cars down on the bottom end. I know in the older builds the cars actually used to hit 60 that quickly, but with the new physics model and performance downgrade I think it should be updated for the next hotfix/build/overhaul.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Daystar on October 20, 2016, 09:28:35 PM

American 4
([url]http://i.imgur.com/8owfJpp.png[/url])
The weightier feeling one of the American muscles. Trades blows with American 1 but handling feels softer and is slower to respond. Still a quick car however once you learn how to steer it. Seems to bottom out often on Sandpit 1 though.


This my fave car, still pinging off jumps...  hopefully this can be resolved some day.  sorry for :::bump::: but this is a serious issue!

Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on October 20, 2016, 09:39:02 PM
Slight complaint with the posted 0-60 times. The stats state cars can hit 0-60 in the range of 3.7 to 4 seconds but in reality they're closer to the 5.8 to 6 second range like a car of their performance should be getting. Transmission selection also plays a huge part in it but in most cases the Racing transmissions actually slow the cars down on the bottom end. I know in the older builds the cars actually used to hit 60 that quickly, but with the new physics model and performance downgrade I think it should be updated for the next hotfix/build/overhaul.

The acceleration times are calculated in a rudimentary fashion as opposed to being simulated, hence they don't take into consideration a lot of stuff.

We actually used to have 'fancy' acceleration simulation implemented as well but it's not been maintained and would need some work before being useful.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Cornkid on October 20, 2016, 09:53:33 PM
Slight complaint with the posted 0-60 times. The stats state cars can hit 0-60 in the range of 3.7 to 4 seconds but in reality they're closer to the 5.8 to 6 second range like a car of their performance should be getting. Transmission selection also plays a huge part in it but in most cases the Racing transmissions actually slow the cars down on the bottom end. I know in the older builds the cars actually used to hit 60 that quickly, but with the new physics model and performance downgrade I think it should be updated for the next hotfix/build/overhaul.

The acceleration times are calculated in a rudimentary fashion as opposed to being simulated, hence they don't take into consideration a lot of stuff.

We actually used to have 'fancy' acceleration simulation implemented as well but it's not been maintained and would need some work before being useful.

Did you also once have rudimentary "bounce" physics once, that you gave up on.

I ask this as new track does the same thing that many of us have been mentioning for years.

The lack of realistic landing spoils many a track, and it seems to never get resolved.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on October 20, 2016, 10:15:21 PM
Yeah we did, back then when we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. Remember that we're now talking about landings with forces that would realistically break the suspension. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing those, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Cornkid on October 20, 2016, 10:21:45 PM
Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.

I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.

EDIT-
what about rather than "internally" deciding stuff, throw the community a build where they can decide if the broken suspension after a jump is too much or not, I just doubt its as simple as that if I'm honest.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Facial_Burns on October 20, 2016, 10:27:14 PM
Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.

I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.


You say you have the ''bounce'' issue when you use rally suspension? i have never had that issue when i use the right suspension
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Cornkid on October 20, 2016, 10:32:27 PM
Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.

Here's the weird part, I get less bounce from road setup, than I do from standard, I dont get it from rally, but hate the lack of throwing a car into a corner from that.

I realise that you are never gonna keep everyone happy, but the fact that daystar bumped this thread on the "bouunce" factor made me want to comment on it, as for me its always been a bit iffy


I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.


You say you have the ''bounce'' issue when you use rally suspension? i have never had that issue when i use the right suspension

I find road setup to bounce less than standard, which cant be right.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Facial_Burns on October 20, 2016, 10:33:37 PM
?
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Facial_Burns on October 20, 2016, 10:35:31 PM

what about rather than "internally" deciding stuff, throw the community a build where they can decide if the broken suspension after a jump is too much or not, I just doubt its as simple as that if I'm honest.

The negativity that would stem from a build of bad suspension would be huge,
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Cornkid on October 20, 2016, 10:37:18 PM

what about rather than "internally" deciding stuff, throw the community a build where they can decide if the broken suspension after a jump is too much or not, I just doubt its as simple as that if I'm honest.

The negativity that would stem from a build of bad suspension would be huge,


oh, and the negativity levels right now from involving community are at an all time high in you're opinion ?
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on October 20, 2016, 10:49:08 PM
A rally car suspension is actually pretty stiff, however they feature a considerable amount of travel to help with landings.

One almost a fool-proof solution to eliminate half of the issue would be to disable the bottom collision for the cars, and while many games do use this trick to prevent bottoming out, in our game it doesn't yield a satisfactory solution since there's obviously a good chance of the bottom of the car being hit by something in collisions.
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Devin on October 21, 2016, 12:15:56 AM
I've recently found rally tracks undrivable with race suspensions, which is absolutely realistic and fine. Some worked with standard and literally every single track now works with rally for me!

I think the best solution would be to dampen any contact the car makes with it's bottom to the ground or to dampen the suspensions much more after they've reached a certain point so that the car doesn't get low enough in the first place. Both could be tested and the first solution seems to sort of work on the car I'm working on, which actually allows me to race on DD2's Chalk Canyon at full speed without flipping the landings.
It can make a huge difference. But like I said, it already felt close to perfect to me after this update!
Title: Re: Update 2015-12-18
Post by: Purple44 on October 21, 2016, 04:10:18 AM
Yeah we did, back then when all we used arcade physics and life was much simpler, in many ways.

The issue (well, there are actually two factors but I'm referring to the suspension related now) you mentioned is well known to us but the reason why nothing has been done about it is that since we're playing with more or less real-world physics this time there aren't perfect solutions to the problem. We could prevent the car from bouncing off when landing, and we have tested it many times, but the effect that such an unrealistic suspension setup has on the handling has been deemed undesirable internally.


I read that to mean when we upgraded ROMU, we lost the ability to keep such matters under control.

Not trying to be over aggresive, its great to see you healthy and on forums again, but that bounce, if incureable just kills the game for me.

No one asked for 15 different tyre composites, or however many suspension settings. You as devs could of upped the players online content, and kept the same old, but working physics is my opinion.

Flatout never fell into either "arcade/sim" handling, and thats why peeps loved it, you chose to go the route of sim, which isnt a bad thing, but broke the game yourselves.



You say you have the ''bounce'' issue when you use rally suspension? i have never had that issue when i use the right suspension


Ya I use rally suspension with my muscle 4 car for any track that has jumps, like gravel and derby fig 8 tracks. And this work well for me. If I forget to change suspension, then I let off the gas or tap the brake so car don't land so hard with standard or racing suspension.

I wonder if other cars work as well with rally suspension?

Cronkid, you don't remember the bouncy suspension of the cars in Flatout 1 if you abuse your car to much!  ;)

http://youtu.be/Mb4qDvz4hLI (http://youtu.be/Mb4qDvz4hLI)

If you were to have any chance of betting Dennis or Drunkfin on Bay City Cup, you better not have a bouncy suspension!

But the Flatout 1 cars did not act as violently as the Wreckfest cars off the jumps, if have the wrong suspension on.