Bugbear Community

Wreckfest => News => Topic started by: Janne Suur-Näkki on August 26, 2016, 06:33:08 PM

Title: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on August 26, 2016, 06:33:08 PM
Dear Wreckers! It's been a while since our last update, and while we're still working on the next one we thought it would be a perfect time to look at the current status of the game and give you guys some idea on what we have in store for you. As you have no doubt noticed the development speed has picked up considerably this year and we've now reached the point at which we will start addressing features that are still missing or otherwise lacking in quality. In other words, it's time to put in all the stuff that will make Wreckfest a complete game!

TRACKS
We already have a pretty nice amount of tracks in the game, and with a couple of new ones in the pipeline the next major step is to bring what we already have to final level of polish. Mostly this means adding proper starting and pitting areas, crowds, a wider variety of props and other racing related set dressings, in other words all those details that will make the tracks seem like authentic racing environments. We've also been getting some feedback that the tracks are currently somewhat dull and don't offer nearly enough opportunities for crashes. We hear you, and we're going to add more props to enable that kind of gameplay, we just have to be super careful since we don't want the environments look like you'd be racing in a fantasy world. Oh and by the way, we're also looking to improve the visual quality of the environments even further and to that end we've already done some test with using photogrammetry-sourced assets. Boy, do they look great!



CARS
Yes, new cars! Everyone loves new cars, and we're going to deliver. In addition to completely new cars we're also expanding the vehicle pool by adding race-ready folk-racing versions of the existing cars that will look more rugged, offer better performance and generally just be badass. The new versions are not replacing the old ones; instead the idea is that the player will start with a cheap version of the car and obtain gradually better ones during the single-player career. We're also working to improve the visual details of the cars such as rust decals to make them look realistic. Speaking of cars, handling is also something that we're constantly evaluating but before making any drastic changes we need to be sure they are for the good of the game and something the majority of you folks would like. This is also something that you can help us by giving us feedback!

CAREER
We just mentioned career, didn't we? A proper career is something that many of you have been looking forward to, and it's not really surprising to us since for many players a proper career that will see you starting from the bottom and working your way up is the meat of the game. This considered we're happy to let you know that we're indeed working on one, and it will mostly follow the traditional format where you play through variety of cups, earning money and experience and gaining access to gradually higher level events and better cars. Our goal is to make the career a meaningful experience without too much micro-management that will hamper the core gameplay, meaning that we will be also reconsidering some of the features that are already implemented such as part repairing and crew management. If something doesn't make sense to us or fit the bill it will be cut or reworked, so now is a perfect time to voice your opinion – what do you like and what not? What would you like to see?

USER INTERFACE
You're probably already used to the temporary user interface that we've had right from the beginning, right? It's something we put together very quickly and it has served its purpose but we're actually now working on replacing it. The new one will be more modern, streamlined, and offer considerably better usability. We're looking forward to share some screenshots of the actual interface with you soon but to give you some idea of the new style here's a HUD concept (not final, mind you):



That pretty much covers it for now. We know that many of you would like to ask about a specific feature and yes, nothing is final yet and we will keep on improving all aspects of the game based on the feedback we receive. As you can see there's still work to be done but most of the legwork is now done so it's more or less a question of actually improving what we have and putting in what will eventually make Wreckfest a proper game. We're humbled by the fact that you've been sticking with us for this ride and we're very grateful for your on-going support. We're sure you'll love it when you will be able to finally see the game taking its final shape in front of your eyes. Most of us are on holiday right now, but we'll back in full force within a couple of weeks!
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: The Very End on August 26, 2016, 06:45:32 PM
Superb :) Quicky: Can we still use xref and use Stuntfest objects in Wreckfest? Ideally, maybe you could make them compatible so you do not have to load up different games = seamless experience and united community.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Janne Suur-Näkki on August 26, 2016, 07:01:12 PM
Not sure yet, we'll see :)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: The Very End on August 26, 2016, 07:06:41 PM
Please do. Don't divide the allready divided community :) Just do a simple check: If server has any Stuntfest props - only players with WF + SF can join. Can be done like your mod check which is allready in game.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: sam223 on August 26, 2016, 07:09:51 PM
Interesting read,will there be cross platform compatibility since the console version doesn't need to be diluted?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Gerty on August 26, 2016, 07:16:45 PM
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: KingOfTheCakes on August 26, 2016, 07:31:58 PM
It's interesting  to see that the game is getting a lot of new content again, but I have one request for now:

Please can the far chase camera be fixed so it's not so centered to the screen please? I get the feeling it's never going to be changed if I don't say something.
I preferred it like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/vRVYVXR.png)

Another thing, I know you're still working to improve things, but I still think the damage needs the most tweaking mechanically. It's still not making reckless driving that encouraging, which is a worry. Build 6 was very good with damage dish-outs, I guess that's why I'm unsure about the current system. I liked the idea at first, but after trying out thoroughly I'm currently having doubts.

In terms of career elements, I like the direction you're heading. My only wish is to have the permanent damage to visually effect the cars until it's fixed.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Hunter on August 26, 2016, 07:53:52 PM
What about more event types?

More derby arenas and related content?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: TheEngiGuy on August 26, 2016, 08:13:23 PM
What about more event types?

More derby arenas and related content?

Yeah, would love to see Suicide Race, and if possible, trailer races and other modes. So much potential with NCG's engine.

Developing Suicide Race mode wouldn't be too long and difficult, I think. Half of the field racing forward, the other backwards.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: BrianUK on August 26, 2016, 08:32:52 PM
Speaking of cars, handling is also something that we're constantly evaluating but before making any drastic changes we need to be sure they are for the good of the game and something the majority of you folks would like. This is also something that you can help us by giving us feedback!

Build. 6.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: hande11 on August 26, 2016, 09:31:26 PM
Cool to hear you in Bugbear are in work for real!  8)

TRACKS
We've also been getting some feedback that the tracks are currently somewhat dull and don't offer nearly enough opportunities for crashes. We hear you, and we're going to add more props to enable that kind of gameplay, we just have to be super careful since we don't want the environments look like you'd be racing in a fantasy world.

I would really consider possibility for concept of making race day and construction day versions (http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,8301.0.html) of some of the selected tracks! = Everyone happy, game will not totally jump out of it's theme and great deal of development time saved for re-using already completed assets  :)

Handling is also something that we're constantly evaluating but before making any drastic changes we need to be sure they are for the good of the game and something the majority of you folks would like. This is also something that you can help us by giving us feedback!

This. I'd have opinion that the number of cars in this dev phase is not nearly as important than handling of the few existing cars there is now and that they are A+ in their current  state (also, for example implement optional mirror(s), clutch for current line-up?).  Also community has already created such a beauties for new cars already themselves and will do this in future too probably.

You could create few new specific question topics by Bugbear! Like Handling topic thread and give also "template" there how to preferably give feedback (ie. Handling feedback thread: give controller type, plusses and negatives on different surfaces and cars, your driving style, your driving aids and settings, suggestion for improvements etc), and isolate that area's current feedback neatly into one informative thread?

You could create also one such a separate discussion thread for Career and Repair (again, since time has passed). It could spark again quite a lot of forum debate, even heated one, but it could be still at the end for the best, for the final outcome when game finalizes.
There are also attempts to consolidate ideas and suggestions like Dwarf Vaders thread (https://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php?topic=8696.0) (just to name one, there are LOT of other threads). Anyway, great you guys are back to working with cool new things :)

Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: ville672 on August 26, 2016, 10:44:50 PM
Sounds amazing!
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: MamieNova on August 26, 2016, 10:58:00 PM
Speaking of cars, handling is also something that we're constantly evaluating but before making any drastic changes we need to be sure they are for the good of the game and something the majority of you folks would like. This is also something that you can help us by giving us feedback!

Build. 6.

You know, I'd be curious to play the build 6 again. I'm really not sure I miss anything else than the slightly more powerful engines.
I tend to expect it to feel like going back to FO2 after hundreds of hours of WF : arcade handling (like the crew).

The current understeer feels like a tweaking problem like the mass transfer to the front taking too long to happen compared to build 6 where grip was simply a matter of "gas pedal down, does not turn / gas pedal up, turns perfectly".

----

Another needed tweak : wheels force feedback.
1/ faster speed should not lead to harder steering. Quite the opposite.
2/ weight factoring wayyyyy too much, the light cars have close to 0 feedback.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Daystar on August 26, 2016, 11:00:38 PM
Thanks for the heads up on all this news Janne! really stoked to see what assets our tracks will accumulate. also very interested in how awesome the terrain graphics will be. Oh! and one last thing, please please look into why keyboard controls is a bit sketchy! meaning half the time when I corner my car, their will be a very strange understeer to oversteer effect that makes cornering very tricky! and mind you, I have tried with full assists on, but that did not help  ::)  or at least show me a screenshot of proven good keyboard settings that work wonderfully! Thanks Janne for hearing me out.
 
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: TheEngiGuy on August 26, 2016, 11:26:02 PM
Bugbear, you should definitely publish this news in the Steam community announcements too, so that newcomers and more Steam users can see this.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: RagingRoach67 on August 27, 2016, 07:34:47 AM
CAREER
We just mentioned career, didn't we? A proper career is something that many of you have been looking forward to, and it's not really surprising to us since for many players a proper career that will see you starting from the bottom and working your way up is the meat of the game. This considered we're happy to let you know that we're indeed working on one, and it will mostly follow the traditional format where you play through variety of cups, earning money and experience and gaining access to gradually higher level events and better cars. Our goal is to make the career a meaningful experience without too much micro-management that will hamper the core gameplay, meaning that we will be also reconsidering some of the features that are already implemented such as part repairing and crew management. If something doesn't make sense to us or fit the bill it will be cut or reworked, so now is a perfect time to voice your opinion – what do you like and what not? What would you like to see?

I would be worried if the parts system gets cut. This blog post (http://www.wreckfestgame.com/upgrading-upgraded/ (http://www.wreckfestgame.com/upgrading-upgraded/)) basically sold me on the game. Combining a parts system like that with a great racing game in the spirit of Flatout and Demolition Derby seems like a win-win to me! Plus, wasn't one of the backer rewards to have our name in the classifieds?

I feel like the game still has an identity crisis. Many fans want a Flatout sequel, but I think initially Bugbear was going for a more sim-cade game. Which is fine! But some of the comments here make it seem like they are back tracking from the initial vision and going for the safe bet. It's been a long haul, I just hope I like the destination.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Zebulon55 on August 27, 2016, 09:08:29 AM
About that UI screenshot - was this screenie made on an online server?
I see Needles and Brian are driving cars, along with Andrei.  :-\

Or is the long ago mentioned system in place where AI take on the names and driving styles of members of the online community?  8)

I'm hoping for success for Bugbear in all their endeavors!
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: St. Jimmy on August 27, 2016, 10:17:15 AM
About the career:

You should maybe drop the crew system and just make it that you've certain amount of repair points between the races. In sprint races so there's only couple hours or less between the races, you've very few points and you can't even replace parts except tires. When there's more time between, you can do more.

Multiplayer shouldn't be tied to singleplayer. Make multiplayer have its own system that's only local to the race mode that the server can have. I've already suggested that a multiplayer mode, where server can set race weekend and you only have certain amount of money to build the car and the repairing is limited.

What happens in the field should affect how parts wear and there should be effect in the race instantly. Maybe parts that become broken/drop off should also lower your health?


About the UI:

Have some customization on it. Some people could like to race with very few things in it so toggle on/off on pretty much everything is welcome.
Race map is needed in the UI and it also should be previewed in the menu.


About damage:

I gave suggestion how the sector damage/health should be tuned on another topic. That way it's much more clear and it also works like before. There should be option for different difficulty levels so lower difficulty you don't die as easily and on higher difficulty you die faster.
Different difficulty levels read different damage_sectors.dmsd files.

Having modding option that difficulty can be set to read all kinds of different files would be very welcome! Though I'm not sure how the multiplayer currently checks if files are the same.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Zebulon55 on August 27, 2016, 11:23:16 AM
Hmmm...
I bought the MasterBlaster level for $50 in November 2013 - so it appears that I will receive the Stuntfest game as well ... does this mean only the finished game, or will I get to participate in Stuntfest early access/play the early access versions too?





Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Paul_B on August 27, 2016, 01:02:58 PM
Well now at least there is a light at the end of the tunnel. The console thing does nothing for me nor does StuntFest, but I think it will be successful as they fit that market well. I just want to see a finished game, I would rather get all tracks an cars up to date then focus on newer projects. Assetto Corsa just made the jump to console they built a following on the PC, which would be a betting move for BB.
 Pre-orders sound a little desperate to me it's just 2nd phase of crowd funding.



Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Ruben Bugbear on August 27, 2016, 01:04:13 PM
Great new, seems like you're guys really gonna pick up the pace!

-I totally agree with more opportunyties to crash. I think of Flatout 1 with al the great construction stuff under the bridge, a sandpit jump, stuff like that, it makes it real fun to drive, and a bit more challeging.

-What about car-custimization/animation, is it only for different paints, or will we really see changing different parts, tires, buying other parts.
I think it would be really great to give a bit of tuning/pimping options, like some funny gadgets you can add to your car; 'Bugbear windshield gadgets' etc. That makes the car even more personal.
And what about an in-game paint-editor?

-How important is wrecking in Wreckfest, haha as the name says; very important. What about making some changes to the game so that wrecking is more promoted in drive-style, score-counter for different hits, wreckless driving points that give you NITRO? Yeah Nitro would be fun :)

Just some ideas, i typed a bit fast, srry for my bad englisch, i'm a Dutchman, and i need to get to work XD

See ya soon all, peace
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: OutLoud on August 28, 2016, 01:39:07 PM
CAREER
We just mentioned career, didn't we? A proper career is something that many of you have been looking forward to, and it's not really surprising to us since for many players a proper career that will see you starting from the bottom and working your way up is the meat of the game. This considered we're happy to let you know that we're indeed working on one, and it will mostly follow the traditional format where you play through variety of cups, earning money and experience and gaining access to gradually higher level events and better cars. Our goal is to make the career a meaningful experience without too much micro-management that will hamper the core gameplay, meaning that we will be also reconsidering some of the features that are already implemented such as part repairing and crew management. If something doesn't make sense to us or fit the bill it will be cut or reworked, so now is a perfect time to voice your opinion – what do you like and what not? What would you like to see?

Thanks for asking for our opinion on the career mode, I feel obligated to answer.

- I don't want to click around in menus, I want to race. So I'm all for getting rid of crews and repairs. I also don't like the parts system, but you probably want to keep that  :D.

- When it comes to the parts system, one thing is very important: I want to drive the same car the AI is driving, always. Maybe a worse car, ok, but never a better car than any AI driver. Buying better parts and beating AI drivers because of that gives me no feeling of accomplishment.

- The AI is currently (although I haven't driven "Update 2016-07-29") many seconds slower than me on Tarmac 2... with the keyboard! Others will find them fast enough of course. The solution is obvious: the game must have a difficulty slider. A few difficulty levels are not enough (just see the outcry with the Codemasters F1 games), a slider is needed. An alien with a wheel must be able to have the same close races as a 10 year old kid with a broken keyboard.

- A difficulty slider can also be used (hidden) in the career leagues. I assume there will be a league system where you have to finish a season in the top 3 or something to progress to the next league. Of course the higher leagues should not only be faster cars but faster AI as well, otherwise there is no increasing challenge. So, if I start the career with difficulty 100, it would raise itself in the background by a few points with every higher league... simple :P.

- I'm not a fan of having to buy parts or cars with earned money. If I make it to a higher league, the car should be given to me. Many will not agree, but I personally really just want to race, not care about money or experience or parts or anything. If the money is too easy to earn it's pointless, if it's to difficult to earn it's a grind. I just don't see the point.

- Other than that... make it long enough. Very long, lots of seasons with lots of leagues with lots of races with lots of laps  :).

I'm sure many will disagree with my points, it's just my opinion.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: TheEngiGuy on August 28, 2016, 02:44:41 PM
-snip-

In my opinion, a career mode without some management isn't really a good mode worth spending time into. If you just want to race, there will be Custom Events for that.
Take Assetto Corsa's career mode for example. It's nothing but a collection of random races. Really no point in playing that since the Custom Events mode is exactly the same.

Hopefully, the overhauled UI will make buying parts and repairing faster/more comfortable.

- Other than that... make it long enough. Very long, lots of seasons with lots of leagues with lots of races with lots of laps  :).

If I'm not wrong, what Bugbear intends to do is to have a never-ending career mode that generates random events.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: hande11 on August 28, 2016, 03:23:20 PM
- The AI is currently (although I haven't driven "Update 2016-07-29") many seconds slower than me on Tarmac 2... with the keyboard! Others will find them fast enough of course. The solution is obvious: the game must have a difficulty slider. A few difficulty levels are not enough (just see the outcry with the Codemasters F1 games), a slider is needed. An alien with a wheel must be able to have the same close races as a 10 year old kid with a broken keyboard.

- A difficulty slider can also be used (hidden) in the career leagues. I assume there will be a league system where you have to finish a season in the top 3 or something to progress to the next league. Of course the higher leagues should not only be faster cars but faster AI as well, otherwise there is no increasing challenge. So, if I start the career with difficulty 100, it would raise itself in the background by a few points with every higher league... simple :P.
I'd in general like this system as well.. at least for single play career :) For example when you're done with Easy difficulty setting and playing with higher leagues with better cars, you can  always also go back to good old lower leagues, back to racing with crappy cars.. now with higher difficulty. Winning good position in any league with Difficult setting could open new items, than when winning it first time with Easy setting perhaps? Then game would give additional rewards also for re-visiting lower leagues with more difficult settings and supporting constant re-playability of lower leagues then too.

Now.. i always forget, if MP/Online is going to have also (seamless?) Career (not just quick MP instant races) and how this would  work there. But anyway it would be make sense that all leagues / racing tiers are having lot of activity in MP/Online too.. not just one-sided tendency to pursuit and stay forever with only fastest cars / upper leagues only once you got there. One has just to be careful, not to divide online MP too much and not to lock more casual online gamers forever out of all cars and tracks in the end, because of the "too fierce" Online competition :) Maybe XP could play some role too, just hanging on in races, especially completing MP races, will give rewards / unlocks too :)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: dbs213 on August 28, 2016, 06:12:57 PM
(It's been awhile since I've been here...) Gotta be honest, I wish Jori was back to give us a little more insight. It's the reason why I haven't been here ever since the last time I posted.

The concept HUD looks good, maybe a more rough and rugged look (with bolder fonts perhaps?) would do but I still like it, grown bored over the one we have now. It's about time career mode has been addressed too and I'm eager enough to play with it as soon as it's implemented. Looking forward to the Folkrace variants as well, can't have too many cars either :))

Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: FalconXY on August 28, 2016, 08:21:16 PM
On the list of thing to do with Wreckfest, I'm missing the "add more game modes" point.
At least my favorite points for turning cars please.


I wonder what this new sector damage/health layout on this screenshot is all about:

(http://www.wreckfestgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Wreckfest-HUD-wip.jpg)

The HUD is looking good.
I think the current system is good but I don't need a health bar and not over the other cars too.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: St. Jimmy on August 28, 2016, 09:35:54 PM
I wonder what this new sector damage/health layout on this screenshot is all about:
Looks like more sectors, so maybe/hopefully they're adding even more!
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Purple44 on August 29, 2016, 11:59:47 AM

The HUD is looking good.
I think the current system is good but I don't need a health bar and not over the other cars too.


I also would like turn off health bar under player name in settings menu. There an option to turn off player names in the settings, it be nice have a second setting to turn off heath bar under player names. I suggest this separate setting because online, I like having player names on, so I know I'm hitting the right car when I'm targeting the leader in an inner oval race.

(http://www.wreckfestgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Wreckfest-HUD-wip.jpg)

(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/Next%20Car%20Game%202016/Devin-dedicated-host3.jpg)

Janne, looking at your HUD wip pic, got me worry. In my pic, the HUD showing on the upper left who in 1st and how far ahead leader is and then show who in front and who behind me and the distance. I like this very much and for me the distance to the leader is key info for me in some races and distance of player catching up with we me ( can I hang on for 1 more lap to the finish line before Hoppen passes?    ;D

I sure hope Bugbear not planning to change this part of the HUD!!  >:(

Now if you can make the letter stand out better, that be good. Sometimes the letters are unreadable depending on the sky background.

Here an extreme example:
(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/Next%20Car%20Game/tent-off-ground.jpg)


Now.. i always forget, if MP/Online is going to have also (seamless?) Career (not just quick MP instant races) and how this would  work there. But anyway it would be make sense that all leagues / racing tiers are having lot of activity in MP/Online too.. not just one-sided tendency to pursuit and stay forever with only fastest cars / upper leagues only once you got there. One has just to be careful, not to divide online MP too much and not to lock more casual online gamers forever out of all cars and tracks in the end, because of the "too fierce" Online competition :) Maybe XP could play some role too, just hanging on in races, especially completing MP races, will give rewards / unlocks too :)


There no getting away from having career mode divide the online community some what. If we had a huge online community, it would not matter. But with small online community, career online would hurt it.

I've never been keen on doing career mode online. I'm more a hop in your car and go race online, kind of guy. Just swapping out parts depending on the track, tramac or dirt or finding the right combo with car parts that available online to all players to pick, is more than enough. Online need a fair race, where it your driving skill, not you having a lot better car than the other players, that wins the race. And you might need a little luck too, depending on the track, like figure 8 track.

I should not have to wait a month of online racing before I can unlock a car that can compete with the other players that are at higher experience level, like what happen in GRID 2.  >:(

I'm still hoping we will get a random car ( stock parts ), random track mode the game will pick, so we can race with other cars beside the Muscle 1 car which most players are using these days online. So we can race with some the other cars.  :D Also make these random cars showroom stock for everybody, so players that don't have the money, are not at a disadvantage racing against cars that have racing parts.


-What about car-custimization/animation, is it only for different paints, or will we really see changing different parts, tires, buying other parts.
I think it would be really great to give a bit of tuning/pimping options, like some funny gadgets you can add to your car; 'Bugbear windshield gadgets' etc. That makes the car even more personal.
And what about an in-game paint-editor?


I got all this money, it would be nice be able buy some customization parts for my car.  :) But doing the damage modeling might be a lot of work for a Dev right now, with Bugbear trying finish up Wreckfest by the end of the year.

But I sure hope a paint-editor make it into the final version.  :D :D :D :D

(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/GRID/GRID-purple-skin.jpg)

At the minimum, let me please change my car skin color.  :D

(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/Next%20Car%20Game/skin%20test/hex-purple-skin2.jpg)

What about more event types?

More derby arenas and related content?


Yeah, would love to see Suicide Race, and if possible, trailer races and other modes. So much potential with NCG's engine.

Developing Suicide Race mode wouldn't be too long and difficulty, I think. Half of the field racing forward, the other backwards.


And would be nice if Bugbear could add a Cops and Robbers mode for online. Since AI do not see objects, AI not smart enough to play Cops and Robbers. You can play Cops and Robbers on the stock tracks if players want too. We just give the red team ( robbers ) a 10 second head start. Want to turn Oval 1 or the Inner Oval tracks into carnage? Do a Cops and Robbers event.

Also thanks to the modding support, we can make our own Cops and Robbers maps to use online.  :D :D

Cops and Robbers mod online Saturday, Aug 27. (http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,9113.0.html)

(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/Next%20Car%20Game%202016/track%20stuff/CnR-pics/CR-arena.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRH6d4X1gvs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRH6d4X1gvs)

But unfortunately in Saturday Cops and Robbers event, the current Build of Wreckfest broke the timer in the tweaked teamdeathmatch.gmpl file we used, so we can have teams, Blue ( cops ) and red ( robbers ) but the respwaning of cars in team deathmatch has been disable in our tweaked file. But the timer did still work back in Feb at the last Cops and Robbers event.

It seem having Last Man Standing option checked, kill the timer now. :(

(http://puu.sh/qNLnu/9e4510588d.png)

Janne, if Bugbear not going release a Cops and Robbers mode, could you guys send me a tweaked teamdeathmatch.gmpl file where the timer works again, please? Saturday I had to be the time keeper and run a timer program on my second monitor and tell the guys when time was up using the text chat window.

Also again online playing Cops and Robbers we were in need of 10 second delay before using the reset option. There were too many places in the Cops and Robbers Arena for the cops and the robbers to get stuck, especially if your car been resized!  :D

I request again that we get a reset option for online, that has a 5 second delay for racing and a 10 second delay for the derbys if host want to use it, please.  :)  Do I have get my hamster pic out??  :P

(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/Next%20Car%20Game%202016/track%20stuff/CnR-pics/bruns-modified-car.jpg)

Superb :) Quicky: Can we still use xref and use Stuntfest objects in Wreckfest? Ideally, maybe you could make them compatible so you do not have to load up different games = seamless experience and united community.


I second this Janne, please let the Stuntfest objects be useable in our custom tracks for Wreckfest!!!   Now you force me to get the hamster out!!

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e6/cc/4f/e6cc4f02e50abf23f2da91bb0ef1d98f.jpg)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Tonza on August 29, 2016, 07:00:01 PM
No no not the hamster!  :o
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Needles Kane on August 29, 2016, 08:03:22 PM


Wohoo, I'm in game! So is BrianUK too. So, does this mean I will get royalties for being such a important part of game?

Is it part of earlier discussed system where offline opponents are named after real players, or did you just handpicked best individuals on the planet?

If latter, before public build goes live you probably want change Needles Kane to Jorma Rysky. I have nothing against using that name in game, but Sony may have different opinion.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Frisker on August 29, 2016, 09:15:06 PM


Wohoo, I'm in game! So is BrianUK too. So, does this mean I will get royalties for being such a important part of game?


Yes.

Is it part of earlier discussed system where offline opponents are named after real players, or did you just handpicked best individuals on the planet?


Then why I'm not in the screenshot?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Axarator on August 30, 2016, 01:29:46 AM
One thing I'd love to see is a mode for multiplayer where you can join whenever you want mid-game and it's just freeroam, like Assetto Corsa drift lobbys or whatever.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Needles Kane on August 30, 2016, 07:27:20 AM
Then why I'm not in the screenshot?

Notice that Andrei Räisänen is last opponent included in screenshot and he is at second last place. You are probably half lap behind, upside down in ditch.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Zebulon55 on August 30, 2016, 09:03:22 AM
Then why I'm not in the screenshot?

Notice that Andrei Räisänen is last opponent included in screenshot and he is at second last place. You are probably half lap behind, upside down in ditch.

That is most likely me in the ditch, but there appear to be two cars ahead of Brian. Who could they be?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Purple44 on August 30, 2016, 09:27:24 AM
Then why I'm not in the screenshot?


Notice that Andrei Räisänen is last opponent included in screenshot and he is at second last place. You are probably half lap behind, upside down in ditch.


That is most likely me in the ditch, but there appear to be two cars ahead of Brian. Who could they be?


Neither them 2 cars ahead of Brian have purple skins on, so it not me!!

(http://www.lay-zmattress.com/flatout2/purple44/Next%20Car%20Game/skin%20test/blackskin-to-custompurple.jpg)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Finsku on August 30, 2016, 01:23:11 PM



Can't see my name so that means I'm TOP-5... right? At least?  :D
HUD looks promising! I think (didn't read whole thread) image is photoshopped screenshot to test different HUDs.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Frisker on August 30, 2016, 02:18:48 PM
Then why I'm not in the screenshot?

Notice that Andrei Räisänen is last opponent included in screenshot and he is at second last place. You are probably half lap behind, upside down in ditch.

Ahh, of course. That must be it!
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: BrianUK on August 30, 2016, 06:50:52 PM
The fact I'm 20th is quite insulting  ;D
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Frisker on August 30, 2016, 06:57:09 PM
The fact I'm 20th is quite insulting  ;D

Maybe in that HUD it means that you're 20 laps ahead?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: St. Jimmy on August 31, 2016, 12:18:45 AM
Anyway to get damage.dset per car at some point? Many of the stuff would be better to be defined per car. Especially the momentum to HP damage is pretty critical. Bigger car needs lower speed to be in the same momentum as smaller car, so it's easier to loose health with bigger car, no matter how you try to do the system. It kind of renders the 100% and 50% sector health diagrams out because it doesn't make sense for bigger car loose health easier than smaller car when sectors aren't too badly damaged. I just realized and noticed how much of a difference there is in momentum between the lightest and heavier cars... You basically need double the speed with Fiat compared to Sedan to get the same momentum.
I also wonder if you've some kind of hidden multiplier because I can't see how 200 max HP damage can suddenly convert to over 400, even 600 depending on a car.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: acid_andy on August 31, 2016, 10:25:20 AM
In terms of career elements, I like the direction you're heading. My only wish is to have the permanent damage to visually effect the cars until it's fixed.


Absolutely! I'd about given up on asking Bugbear for this, but since Janne's asking for more suggestions now, here it is again one last time:

http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,5185.msg43668.html#msg43668 (http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,5185.msg43668.html#msg43668)

I think I already know it's not going to happen though :(
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Camming on September 02, 2016, 09:26:08 AM
So what's the probability of this game actually getting to the finish line? Apparently, the company is listed in a few cases related to unpaid bills in Finland (http://www.protestilista.com/yritys/1586716-8 (http://www.protestilista.com/yritys/1586716-8)) and the headcount has dropped drastically to around 10 people. Also, one of the founders (CTO) has apparently left (both overheard at a finnish computer games event and word of mouth carried them on)...
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: St. Jimmy on September 02, 2016, 10:18:39 AM
Quote
You get to make this game with us. The game is currently scheduled to be released early 2017, but we have already released an early version showcasing what the engine can do, and that’s going to be available to our supporters only.

The early access version is just a start, though! We will actively listen to our supporters’ feedback and build the game on that. What works will get enhanced, and what sucks will get fixed.

The company can and will survive the next year but after that it all likely depends on sales in PC and consoles. The better sale the longer support of developing after the release.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: simosimo on September 02, 2016, 11:55:38 AM
I feel this game has amazing tech, but the indecisive implementations of certain things really let it down. The new UI is a tremendous step in the right direction. If you're going for console releases, this is absolutely what you need.

I played this game to death online [before modding was released], the MP was great (Even though I hate team-racing when admins change it to that mode :) ). I stopped for a while and when I returned, you had to repair your cars and add crews and what not. This literally adds nothing to the gaming experience, other than making users enter a menu and clicking buttons. I hope this is removed for good, or at least bundled into a 'realism' mode for those that would like it.

Totally unrelated, and probably an unfair comparison; but I've been playing the Witcher 3 recently and the amount of options in the menus is amazing. It's the reason why games like ARMA are so successful because the options are there, and users can do what they want. If people want to play without the health bar, let them. We are the PC platform, we're built for OPTIONS!

You did good by allowing modding and allowing Steam workshop. This has added hours onto my playtime and is crucial for the long term life of the game. Games like Half Life, Skyrim are so popular because of modding .A game like this needs TRACKS and CARS, and we can now have that!

I want the driving physics to be a bit faster paced, especially when playing the amazing Destruction Derby mod. I think it's quite funny that such a ludcious gaming concept has semi-sim driving physics. I want to zap around tracks fast and look at how messed up the other cars get. Why do we have sim physics when we are flying off the big hill jump on Chalk Canyon  :D

The game you have at the moment is a GREAT racer. I would love to have Touring cars for example. But the heart of the game is smashing things up and jumping into shop-fronts! I don't really care about my parts, I just want to go fast and smash the AI/other players. Spinning out because of oversteer isn't fun in a game like this.

Easy for me to say; but again, if this was an option [to enable sim/arcade physics] then even better! Non programmers always have the best ideas right?! :)

I enjoyed playing even with the crew/parts system, but as soon as the health bar thing was introduced I stopped. I couldn't play my favourite Destruction Derby tracks because my HP was being hit after each jump, lap after lap, even without contact with other cars. Really silly change, with that sim fascination creeping in over fun gameplay yet again.

Wreckfest has a bad rep! I browse Reddit and every time it pops up, folks always mention about slow progress and not many features and the constantly changing design philosophy.

I always recommend this game to Destruction Derby fans (as I think it's a true sequel) , but I think the 'do it yourself' feel of the game puts them off. Why would they take a chance with an early access game that makes little progress? We all love the game, but where is the trust for new players?

Most of my friends are console gamers, and a few are racer fans. If the current-feel Wreckfest was packaged into a PS4 game, I know what they would say EXACTLY:

'Feels slow and there's not much to do' - Low content games get savaged these days. Just look at No Mans Sky. Your game is literally the racing version of No Mans Sky at the minute. Light on content, etc. Although there are no lies like NMS :D

In closing:

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast! The sense of progression was cool too, I always preferred the derby racing over the Supercar stuff though. (I'm glad the ragdoll thing has gone though)

Internet people are the loudest, yet the silent majority will be [are] your audience. They will be taking a chance buying your game on console. I just hope your sample audience are varied gamer types and not all hardcore simmers.

I would play Flatout:UC to this day, but i'm in love with Wreckfest's damage model. Anything less is just feels inferior! We don't know the pressures/struggles the publishers put on you, BugBear in the Flatout days, but the final products were amazing fun. Don't forget your roots.

A great damage model, fun physics, not bogged down by dumb crap. You have an amazing recipe here - just stop adding too much salt to the pot.


From, beloved fan :)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: St. Jimmy on September 02, 2016, 03:21:07 PM
- Fix the bottom hits that makes you bounce like crazy. I guess suspension also plays part in this. You should try to make the suspension not go so much down that the bottom of the car hits the ground or something.
- Make the health drop only when you've black sector
- Driving assists should help more especially keyboard players

When those get implemented/fixed everybody from simulation to casual crowd will be pretty happy with the base. I've been playing with my St. Damage and it's just so much better that you loose health only when the sector is black.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Saint Jimmy on September 02, 2016, 03:49:14 PM
I feel this game has amazing tech, but the indecisive implementations of certain things really let it down. The new UI is a tremendous step in the right direction. If you're going for console releases, this is absolutely what you need.

I played this game to death online [before modding was released], the MP was great (Even though I hate team-racing when admins change it to that mode :) ). I stopped for a while and when I returned, you had to repair your cars and add crews and what not. This literally adds nothing to the gaming experience, other than making users enter a menu and clicking buttons. I hope this is removed for good, or at least bundled into a 'realism' mode for those that would like it.

Totally unrelated, and probably an unfair comparison; but I've been playing the Witcher 3 recently and the amount of options in the menus is amazing. It's the reason why games like ARMA are so successful because the options are there, and users can do what they want. If people want to play without the health bar, let them. We are the PC platform, we're built for OPTIONS!

You did good by allowing modding and allowing Steam workshop. This has added hours onto my playtime and is crucial for the long term life of the game. Games like Half Life, Skyrim are so popular because of modding .A game like this needs TRACKS and CARS, and we can now have that!

I want the driving physics to be a bit faster paced, especially when playing the amazing Destruction Derby mod. I think it's quite funny that such a ludcious gaming concept has semi-sim driving physics. I want to zap around tracks fast and look at how messed up the other cars get. Why do we have sim physics when we are flying off the big hill jump on Chalk Canyon  :D

The game you have at the moment is a GREAT racer. I would love to have Touring cars for example. But the heart of the game is smashing things up and jumping into shop-fronts! I don't really care about my parts, I just want to go fast and smash the AI/other players. Spinning out because of oversteer isn't fun in a game like this.

Easy for me to say; but again, if this was an option [to enable sim/arcade physics] then even better! Non programmers always have the best ideas right?! :)

I enjoyed playing even with the crew/parts system, but as soon as the health bar thing was introduced I stopped. I couldn't play my favourite Destruction Derby tracks because my HP was being hit after each jump, lap after lap, even without contact with other cars. Really silly change, with that sim fascination creeping in over fun gameplay yet again.

Wreckfest has a bad rep! I browse Reddit and every time it pops up, folks always mention about slow progress and not many features and the constantly changing design philosophy.

I always recommend this game to Destruction Derby fans (as I think it's a true sequel) , but I think the 'do it yourself' feel of the game puts them off. Why would they take a chance with an early access game that makes little progress? We all love the game, but where is the trust for new players?

Most of my friends are console gamers, and a few are racer fans. If the current-feel Wreckfest was packaged into a PS4 game, I know what they would say EXACTLY:

'Feels slow and there's not much to do' - Low content games get savaged these days. Just look at No Mans Sky. Your game is literally the racing version of No Mans Sky at the minute. Light on content, etc. Although there are no lies like NMS :D

In closing:

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast! The sense of progression was cool too, I always preferred the derby racing over the Supercar stuff though. (I'm glad the ragdoll thing has gone though)

Internet people are the loudest, yet the silent majority will be [are] your audience. They will be taking a chance buying your game on console. I just hope your sample audience are varied gamer types and not all hardcore simmers.

I would play Flatout:UC to this day, but i'm in love with Wreckfest's damage model. Anything less is just feels inferior! We don't know the pressures/struggles the publishers put on you, BugBear in the Flatout days, but the final products were amazing fun. Don't forget your roots.

A great damage model, fun physics, not bogged down by dumb crap. You have an amazing recipe here - just stop adding too much salt to the pot.


From, beloved fan :)

Yes, yes, yes. So many valid points (in my opinion)!
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Frisker on September 02, 2016, 03:54:16 PM
While I loved Flatout 2&Ultimate Carnage, FO1 was always my favorite. The reason being the bit more realistic handling physics, FO2 was a lot more arcadey in that aspect. In Wreckfest, I like the simcade type approach, as it makes better clean racing, but then again I do agree with an option for more arcadey handling aswell as that would make better smashing races outside oval and figure 8 tracks.
And also, menu options, YES. The more there is, the better. Atm I'd really like to turn off the health display, takes away some of the immersion when I know exactly who to hit. I like to look at the cars themselves and try to figure out the perfect spot to nail and wreck them!
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Zebulon55 on September 02, 2016, 11:47:32 PM


In closing:

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast! The sense of progression was cool too, I always preferred the derby racing over the Supercar stuff though. (I'm glad the ragdoll thing has gone though)

Internet people are the loudest, yet the silent majority will be [are] your audience. They will be taking a chance buying your game on console. I just hope your sample audience are varied gamer types and not all hardcore simmers.

I would play Flatout:UC to this day, but i'm in love with Wreckfest's damage model. Anything less is just feels inferior! We don't know the pressures/struggles the publishers put on you, BugBear in the Flatout days, but the final products were amazing fun. Don't forget your roots.

A great damage model, fun physics, not bogged down by dumb crap. You have an amazing recipe here - just stop adding too much salt to the pot.


From, beloved fan :)

Agreed;

I think Bugbear set out to make the game that they wanted; they promised fun elements, but only they know for sure what they wanted in the game. The community offered suggestions, some were agreed to, others not.

The publishers of the past apparently kept the intellectual property, and dictated what was put in the game and what was left out. The Publishers want to maximize profits (ROI) and part of that is doing a market study and putting in features that are most popular. No one can say Flatout 2 was a bad game or unpopular because it followed the publisher's formula. Quite the opposite, actually.  I liked Flatout so much, that I bought Flatout2 as soon as I saw it available, and Flatout 2 became my favorite. I never tried Flatout UC myself, I had seen it described as just an enhanced version of Flatout 2, with "Games for Windows".  ::)

I think Bugbear is in a position now where they are thinking about maximizing profits, and that makes sense. Arguably, if they had originally gone arcade with Wreckfest, they may (or may not) have been at a financial point now where they could have made a realistic game or DLC from the IP that they developed, but that's not the path that they chose. Certainly, the mod scene is showing a preference for arcade play - Destruction Derby tracks and cars, the awesome CanyonX mod, Purple's Cops and Robbers mod, and many others offer over-the-top gameplay elements like jumps and explosions and over powered cars. Things that bugbear had available in the engine and assets, but didn't use in favor of realism and to avoid griefer's misuse.

Wreckfest is a great game - but not offering some of the features that many arcade fans are clamoring for. Stuntfest is the solution.

-Also from a beloved (Flatout 2) fan, one wishing the best for Bugbear's present and future projects.  ;D
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Daystar on September 03, 2016, 12:17:16 AM


In closing:

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast! The sense of progression was cool too, I always preferred the derby racing over the Supercar stuff though. (I'm glad the ragdoll thing has gone though)

Internet people are the loudest, yet the silent majority will be [are] your audience. They will be taking a chance buying your game on console. I just hope your sample audience are varied gamer types and not all hardcore simmers.

I would play Flatout:UC to this day, but i'm in love with Wreckfest's damage model. Anything less is just feels inferior! We don't know the pressures/struggles the publishers put on you, BugBear in the Flatout days, but the final products were amazing fun. Don't forget your roots.

A great damage model, fun physics, not bogged down by dumb crap. You have an amazing recipe here - just stop adding too much salt to the pot.


From, beloved fan :)

Agreed;

I think Bugbear set out to make the game that they wanted; they promised fun elements, but only they know for sure what they wanted in the game. The community offered suggestions, some were agreed to, others not.

The publishers of the past apparently kept the intellectual property, and dictated what was put in the game and what was left out. The Publishers want to maximize profits (ROI) and part of that is doing a market study and putting in features that are most popular. No one can say Flatout 2 was a bad game or unpopular because it followed the publisher's formula. Quite the opposite, actually.  I liked Flatout so much, that I bought Flatout2 as soon as I saw it available, and Flatout 2 became my favorite. I never tried Flatout UC myself, I had seen it described as just an enhanced version of Flatout 2, with "Games for Windows".  ::)

I think Bugbear is in a position now where they are thinking about maximizing profits, and that makes sense. Arguably, if they had originally gone arcade with Wreckfest, they may (or may not) have been at a financial point now where they could have made a realistic game or DLC from the IP that they developed, but that's not the path that they chose. Certainly, the mod scene is showing a preference for arcade play - Destruction Derby tracks and cars, the awesome CanyonX mod, Purple's Cops and Robbers mod, and many others offer over-the-top gameplay elements like jumps and explosions and over powered cars. Things that bugbear had available in the engine and assets, but didn't use in favor of realism and to avoid griefer's misuse.

Wreckfest is a great game - but not offering some of the features that many arcade fans are clamoring for. Stuntfest is the solution.

-Also from a beloved (Flatout 2) fan, one wishing the best for Bugbear's present and future projects.  ;D

OMG you forgot my skies! haha no worries, but you do bring up some valid points indeed. I just hope and pray that Bugbear keeps Wreckfest in focus, and not concentrate to heavily in thier X-box and ps4 versions! but I do still have confidence that Wreckfest will be a bad ass game, that will not go down in history... they just need to stay focused on Wf!
 
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Zebulon55 on September 03, 2016, 01:07:20 AM


OMG you forgot my skies! haha no worries, but you do bring up some valid points indeed. I just hope and pray that Bugbear keeps Wreckfest in focus, and not concentrate to heavily in thier X-box and ps4 versions! but I do still have confidence that Wreckfest will be a bad ass game, that will not go down in history... they just need to stay focused on Wf!

No, I didn't forget about your skies - they are a great addition, and alot of them fall outside of "realism", but I was more talking about gameplay objects.  Decor things like your skies and funny signage definitely set a mood for the game. I make signage for Purple's mods and definitely try to emphasize humor, though my sense of humor isn't everybody's cup o' tea. LOL
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: sam223 on September 03, 2016, 01:56:58 PM
Im pretty pleased with the direction the game has headed. More pleased than i would have been for a flatout 2 clone anyway.
What i always hoped the game would become is what mod support is for.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: hande11 on September 03, 2016, 11:39:56 PM
While I loved Flatout 2&Ultimate Carnage, FO1 was always my favorite. The reason being the bit more realistic handling physics, FO2 was a lot more arcadey in that aspect. In Wreckfest, I like the simcade type approach, as it makes better clean racing, but then again I do agree with an option for more arcadey handling aswell as that would make better smashing races outside oval and figure 8 tracks.
And also, menu options, YES. The more there is, the better. Atm I'd really like to turn off the health display, takes away some of the immersion when I know exactly who to hit. I like to look at the cars themselves and try to figure out the perfect spot to nail and wreck them!
Agree on this. I have now both games installed Ultimate Carnage and Wreckfest. Before Wreckfest i was still playing UC happily, but now after Wreckfest, UC feels suprisingly, way too arcade and simplistic what comes to handling and damage physics. UC was nice in memories, but once i launch it, no way, i want go very fast back to Wreckfest. UC has it's merits, nice tracks and fun stuff going on. But i think too that what really sets Wreckfest very interesting ambitious new territory and not being just clone of many other games, is advanced car handling and damage physics. And now with modding support more possibilities to implement fun stuff too (according each one's taste) as Sam321 said. Arcade handling could be implemented with current driving assists, i think too (absolutely no need to lessen hi-fidelity of current handling without assits). And progression comes, when career is implemented.

It's the same old story; arcadey stuff sells more, especially on consoles. As much as I love the tight community here, I hope the echo-chamber of wanting more realism features isn't fogging up the development of the game to make it a success like Flatout was. Flatout was popular for a reason, it was FAST, there was stuff to wreck on track and it was a literal blast!

EDIT: I was thinking about FAST factor of flatout (UC)  :) I agree, this is arguably is there, when compared to Wreckfest:
- Motion blur make Flatout appear faster
- Close proximity of props (barns, fences, trees, bushes) very near to road will make Flatout appear faster
- Driving through corners with greater speed with arcade handling and physics and using Nitro make Flatout driving speed faster
- Default FOV in Wreckfest might be too narrow to many users (setting FOV to +20 will really make difference to speed sensation)
=> Many of these i guess are quite easyble moddable and implementable as options for Wreckfest engine and are not really fundamental problems (ie. options, track design, mods, sequels using Wreckfest game engine)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Devin on September 04, 2016, 12:51:25 PM
Now back to the health bar, since many people don't want it but somehow stopped talking about it:

In the latest WhyBeAre video, he first played Wreckfest in years, so he played with the health bar for the first time.

The bar was supposed to make wrecking more intuitive, easier to understand and more suited for the average console player.
Turns out it isn't. Most people who haven't read the changelog have no idea how the health bar works. In that video for example you can see that he notices that having black triangles doesn't kill him and he assumes they don't affect the car's health and instead only represent the visual damage. He then proceeds to hit everyone in a derby with just his front, long after those triangles were completely ruined already. This causes him to lose every single derby.

I think getting rid of the health bar again would make it easier for new players to understand how the damage works. At the age of 5 I already understood the damage system of Destruction Derby 2. Seeing that adults don't even understand Wreckfest's damage made me realize that many people are actually incapable of understanding the connection between the health bar and the triangles, because they're too indirectly connected. Damaging a triangle does not directly affect the car's health it seems. Many people have trouble understanding that connection then.

If there were only triangles and if they'd die once any triangle went black, they'd slowly start to realize "oh hey I think that's my health and I have to protect these", while currently they only think "The harder I hit others, the less damage I receive" while completely ignoring the triangles it seems.

I do like the health bars, but I suggest you look into them again. Maybe make them optional somehow, deactivated by default? Maybe in a separate gamemode even? Give servers and events the option to be more arcade, which changes both physics and the health bar for arcade sakes? Many people want Build 6 back, which was a lot more arcadey than the current builds. But I like the current builds. This would give us the best of both. Just a suggestion, but I really do hope that can happen
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: The Very End on September 04, 2016, 12:59:51 PM
Agree, either fix it and make something like what Jimmy has done, making the health drop when a sector is black and you are hit in that sector, or remove it entierly.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Purple44 on September 04, 2016, 02:23:07 PM
Agree, either fix it and make something like what Jimmy has done, making the health drop when a sector is black and you are hit in that sector, or remove it entierly.

But I don't want my car to die to easy.

Damage indicators were working OK for me before the health bar got introduce.  :)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: The Very End on September 04, 2016, 02:25:34 PM
Agree, before the health bar it was good :)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Hoppen on September 05, 2016, 03:11:48 AM
Now back to the health bar, since many people don't want it but somehow stopped talking about it:

In the latest WhyBeAre video, he first played Wreckfest in years, so he played with the health bar for the first time.

The bar was supposed to make wrecking more intuitive, easier to understand and more suited for the average console player.
Turns out it isn't. Most people who haven't read the changelog have no idea how the health bar works. In that video for example you can see that he notices that having black triangles doesn't kill him and he assumes they don't affect the car's health and instead only represent the visual damage. He then proceeds to hit everyone in a derby with just his front, long after those triangles were completely ruined already. This causes him to lose every single derby.

I think getting rid of the health bar again would make it easier for new players to understand how the damage works. At the age of 5 I already understood the damage system of Destruction Derby 2. Seeing that adults don't even understand Wreckfest's damage made me realize that many people are actually incapable of understanding the connection between the health bar and the triangles, because they're too indirectly connected. Damaging a triangle does not directly affect the car's health it seems. Many people have trouble understanding that connection then.

If there were only triangles and if they'd die once any triangle went black, they'd slowly start to realize "oh hey I think that's my health and I have to protect these", while currently they only think "The harder I hit others, the less damage I receive" while completely ignoring the triangles it seems.

I do like the health bars, but I suggest you look into them again. Maybe make them optional somehow, deactivated by default? Maybe in a separate gamemode even? Give servers and events the option to be more arcade, which changes both physics and the health bar for arcade sakes? Many people want Build 6 back, which was a lot more arcadey than the current builds. But I like the current builds. This would give us the best of both. Just a suggestion, but I really do hope that can happen

Honestly, having played with the new health bar for some time now, I tend to agree, it's confusing to some people and adds very little to the gameplay. I do like how damage now deals out less to the attacker, but that could have been implemented in the old system.

It feels like having a health bar as well as the health triangles is kind of a mish mash between two health systems, which really wasn't needed.

My main issue with the game, is just a lack of polish now, too many people are crashing since the last update and servers are crashing more than ever. (Most seems to be upon track changes, or at the results screen after races)

Handling feels great, but there is still some buggy issues with cars digging into the dirt after landing, also collisions where one car lands on the other are awkward as the cars kind of melt together (it does happen more than you would think)

Apart from that, the game just needs a more intuitive UI, a single mode career and performance tweaks, if Bugbear want the game to run on consoles, they're really going to have to tweak the hell out of the performance (even still, I doubt whether the console versions will be able to handle more than 16 players or so)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Mopower on September 05, 2016, 12:58:02 PM
I like the full needle tachs more, personally. Maybe have some options for UI?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: RickyB on September 05, 2016, 01:38:21 PM
Just my 2 cents off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: TPEHAK on September 08, 2016, 06:26:51 AM
I have a few questions since Wreckfest is going to be on game consoles. Are you going to perform better video graphics for PS4 Pro than for PS4 slim? Are you going to support PlayStation VR? Will video graphics on PS4 Pro be better than on PC?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Purple44 on September 08, 2016, 07:18:25 AM
Will video graphics on PS4 Pro be better than on PC?

That possible? To have better graphics on a console than a high end PC?

Graphics have gotten much better on consoles. But there consoles that can do 60 FPS at a high resolution with graphics settings set to Ultra?
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: MamieNova on September 08, 2016, 07:22:58 AM
Will video graphics on PS4 Pro be better than on PC?

Unlikely, according to the specs, it will sport a graphics card with almost as much computing power as a GTX980, but twice the VRAM (8GB).
the GTX1080 (and the AMD equivalent to that) owners should easily have the better quality.

Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: sam223 on September 08, 2016, 03:03:45 PM
Will video graphics on PS4 Pro be better than on PC?

That possible? To have better graphics on a console than a high end PC?

Graphics have gotten much better on consoles. But there consoles that can do 60 FPS at a high resolution with graphics settings set to Ultra?
Im expecting medium to high settings with a reduced amount of cars on track. I wonder if BB are gonna pay out for some official servers, can just imagine the lagfest if people are trying to host from their wireless consoles
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Devin on September 08, 2016, 07:13:48 PM
Im expecting medium to high settings with a reduced amount of cars on track. I wonder if BB are gonna pay out for some official servers, can just imagine the lagfest if people are trying to host from their wireless consoles
That's only going to happen if they write some proper server software. The current dedicated server is so bad that I as a dev wouldn't even think about hosting an official server because it'd be too much work.
Also, as far as I know, as a PS4/XBone dev you have to agree to use some sort of lobby system which relies on an official matchmaker by the console manufacturer or something, which is the reason why many games will never come out for consoles. Means, no servers at all. Console peasants are used to input lag of doom, so they won't even notice the lag online.



To the question if console graphics will be higher than PC: This will NEVER ever happen. Simply because on console, graphics is locked, while on PC it's fully customisable and you can set it to the highest settings the devs implement. This basically means, either they lock it to a level for consoles and PC or, which is more likely, the PC gets the full ultra violence package that even most modern GPUs can't handle, just because it can and because the PC can be upgraded later on. Means they won't have to re-release the same game 5 times in just 3 years just to update the graphics on PC. Release it once and maybe give it a slight graphics overhaul 20 years later. That's how PC works.

Well, this might happen if the devs get paid a ton of money from console manufacturers to artificially limit graphics, but that'd only end in a shitstorm, a loss of sales and mods to fix the graphics again, like most Ubisoft titles. In the end, PC will ALWAYS have better graphics because it is open, so even if a game lacks good looks, some modders will always patch it in. Even old games like Midtown Madness 2 are still being unofficially updated to make them look better
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Frisker on September 09, 2016, 12:26:53 AM
Will video graphics on PS4 Pro be better than on PC?
Did you seriously just ask that?

No I don't mean to be rude, but still... Anyway, the PS4 graphics will most likely look pretty good. Have to wait for BB to give something of the different versions of it though.

Edit. And next time I make sure that I will refresh the topic after clicking it on it "show unread posts"

I thought I was the first one to reply him lol.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: presuming ed on September 11, 2016, 12:40:18 PM
If you're changing the UI, it's time for VR.

One of the problems you have with this game is it has already achieved - what maybe 70% or more of its income and it hasn't been released yet.

You need to appeal to a new group of users.

People with VR headsets would flood to this game, and you'd pull in a new audience.

You're already DX11 I think so - well you're in the best place you could be to implement it.

Go VR.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: St. Jimmy on September 11, 2016, 02:29:35 PM
If you're changing the UI, it's time for VR.

One of the problems you have with this game is it has already achieved - what maybe 70% or more of its income and it hasn't been released yet.

You need to appeal to a new group of users.

People with VR headsets would flood to this game, and you'd pull in a new audience.

You're already DX11 I think so - well you're in the best place you could be to implement it.

Go VR.

I agree. Every car game should've free head movement at least. That's basically what VR is + 3D view.

Playing game like Arma when you're able to move your head freely is very cool. Then there are people with eye and headtracking who would really appreciate that because they can take full advantage of free head movement.

Deforming is likely a thing why this can be harder to do right in WreckFest. So I can understand if it's hard for BB to do.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: TheEngiGuy on September 11, 2016, 03:42:22 PM
I would love to see VR in the game too, but they should first and foremost finish the game. Make VR support as a post-launch update.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: presuming ed on September 11, 2016, 04:08:19 PM
Would be interesting to know if the developers have an opinion.

Or whether they've looked into it at all, had any kind of test with VR.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Purple44 on September 11, 2016, 09:08:05 PM
Would be nice see the Devs active in the forum again. They were active before they went on vaction and was helping us out with the modding.  :D


I'm pretty sure most back Bugbear Devs are back in the studio now. Most have logged into the Bugbear forum this month, but not a peep out of them yet this month.  :(

Please Bugbear, interact with your community, give us a bone to chew on once in awhile!

(http://digitaldeconstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Dog-Chewing-on-a-Bone-300x228.jpg)
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Daystar on September 12, 2016, 07:40:15 AM
Would be nice see the Devs active in the forum again. They were active before they went on vaction and was helping us out with the modding.  :D


I'm pretty sure most back Bugbear Devs are back in the studio now. Most have logged into the Bugbear forum this month, but not a peep out of them yet this month.  :(

Please Bugbear, interact with your community, give us a bone to chew on once in awhile!

([url]http://digitaldeconstruction.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Dog-Chewing-on-a-Bone-300x228.jpg[/url])


Also I hope they come back to answer some issues. such as the broken keyboard play. wish they hadn't dicked with the keyboard play settings (again). they were like perfect a build or two back.  :-\
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: noID3A on September 16, 2016, 02:08:34 PM
Is there anybody but me who is into that crew mechanics? I dont say that it is perfect at the moment but I like the idea and the possibilities in it. I see it as great way to tweak your car so it fits your preferred handling and driving style. In weekend tournaments that gives reason to think how you drive. When you have limited repair resources you dont want to go banging your car to scrap yard at the first start.

I see that a way to compensate lack of driving skills with tinkering with your car and making proper tactics. And just enjoying racing with a car that is "unique" and made to your standards by you.
Title: Re: Wreckfest Status Update
Post by: Big Ron on September 19, 2016, 03:00:20 PM
Hey Bugbear,
I played the game at the current stage after several month and like the direction the game is going. I see that it´s still heavy under development. But it´s now at a level where I can see where it´s going to.

To not spend too much time with the whole bunch of positive things (which are a lot) and get to the point quicker, here my notes for the development:

1) the prices for the car parts are a bit too low IMO. It needs too little effort to get most of the good parts for a car.

2) I don´t get the relation between repair points and part prices -> because I earn just little repair points but good money, I often just replace car parts with new ones instead of repairing them -> does that make sense in your system? The idea of a crew and mechanics is pretty cool (especially for championships and cups). But the crew skills should be related to experience levels (like in Dirt Rally) and not to collected repair points.

3) I am playing with Steam Controller and from time to time with G25-wheel. And while I like the driving model with both devices (all without aids), I find the level of simulation for this type of game a bit too much. It feels great when driving without aids and how the cars act, but in races the relation between fighting your car and fighting the opponents is too much in direction of the first one IMO. Braking is hard since I can´t hear or feel locking wheels. At higher speeds heavy oversteering is nearly impossible to recover with muscle cars. But well, I could still activate aids. But not sure how much that influences the experience to the worse (too slow opponents).

4) The sound ingame and in replays needs heavy work, especially engine sound. Ingame, the playing of engine sound-samples are not great, especially the relation to RPM and acceleration. It is a handful to feel and control the car when the engine sounds don´t fit what I am doing (accelerating or shifting). And in replays, the opponent engines are too quite and the player engine is just stuttering all around.

5) Jump collision is still off since month. In a lot of situations, opponents stuck to the ground and are rocket launched into the air because the chassis jams the ground. I can feel that at my car often, too. But didn´t had the same situation like the opponents.

6) Damage model is better than in the past, but hoods and trunk covers often bend with the chassis as if they are not seperated parts, but welded 3d models. That does look strange and not how I expect those parts to damage. Also, the trunk and hood-physics are annyoing IMO since they are very repetitive and not quite comprehensible. They are not related to car speed.

7) Would be great if UI can be independend from display resolution. ATM the higher the resolution the more tiny the UI-fonts and buttons. That makes it hard to see buttons on TV at 1080p.

8) I still miss puddles at the track side like in Flatout 1. Please, add them to the track with physics to influence driving. Also, make tree trunk stacks possible.

9) Where are game modes for collecting points when crashing?

Otherwise, great progress. Well done.