A few random suggestions.

Thunderbyrd316

New Member
If this is posted in the wrong place, please feel free to move it or tell me where to move it myself.

I have a few random suggestions about some things I find particularly annoying that I am hopeful can be improved. (I say this as someone who absolutely LOVES this game!)

1. The walls around the tracks are way too "sticky" or "grabby". When a real stock car slaps a concrete wall it does not shred the entire side of the car, nor does it violently pull the car into it. Yet, in the game both happen much too frequently, sometimes even half destroying the car where in real life damage would be limited to scrapping the paint or at worst, flattening the side of the car. Related to this is the way the walls "peel". Real concrete walls do not "peel" or "chunk off" as they do in the game. Not only does this make an unsightly mess on the track but it also uses up valuable computing power that could certainly be put to better use.

2. Body panels and bumpers detach FAR too easily. Could we at the very least get an option for "welded" cars where the bodies stay together? The grills, spoilers and other minor trim pieces also detach far too easily though this is less annoying than the major body panels such as doors, hoods and fenders.

3. Even in regular damage mode, cars frequently bend far too much or far too much from what should be minor collisions. If a car gets blasted at even 40 m.p.h. (60 Km/h) it should get deformed pretty substantially but I frequently see cars badly deformed from collisions that should not come close to doing the level of damage done. Also, cars with badly deformed driver's compartments or fully deformed and exposed engine bays should not be able to run at all. Wheels also sometimes get moved far out of place from where they should.

4. I would like to see the ability for tires to be punctured or even shredded and this should effect handling of the car. Even GTA games have this to some extent, though not executed as well as it could be. (Ideally, different types of tires and even how worn they are should effect handling, especially on asphalt or concrete.)

5. I would like to see some more (and more realistically depicted) oval and Figure 8 tracks and SMALL Destruction Derby Arenas. Currently the only tracks that seem realistic are Bloomfield Speedway and Big Valley Speedway and even Big Valley Speedway, in its Figure 8 and Destruction Derby configurations, is not well done. For Figure 8 and "inner oval" races, the entire infield should be completely empty except for the paint lines on the track and perhaps some large heavy equipment tires (NOT a solid wall of them AND they should be movable but should do SOME damage to cars that hit them) around the inside of the track. For Destruction Derby Finale style events at the most, cars should only be allowed to use the area inside the inner oval and ideally, heavy equipment tires should cordon off even a smaller area. (It would also be good to have heavy equipment tires or Jersey barriers fence off the front straight or infield area of Bloomfield Speedway for Destruction Derby Finale style events at that venue.)

Here are a few suggestions for specific track configurations I would like to see added (Note that I would have no objection to some of these being combined in the same way as with Big Valley Speedway, i.e. a 1/5, 3/8 and 5/8 Mile Oval as with the real world Evergreen Speedway in Monroe, Washington, etc.):
1/5 Mile Flat Dirt Oval and Figure 8
1/5 Mile Flat Asphalt Oval and Figure 8
1/4 Mile Banked Asphalt Oval and Figure 8 (basically a paved version of Bloomfield)
3/8 Mile Banked Dirt Oval and Figure 8 (basically a slightly larger version of Bloomfield)
3/8 Mile Banked Asphalt Oval and Figure 8
5/8 Mile Banked Dirt Oval
5/8 Mile Banked Asphalt Oval
5/8 Mile High Banked Concrete Oval (Like the famous Bristol, Tennessee track)
1 Mile Banked Dirt Oval
1 mile Banked Asphalt Oval
1 Mile Banked Concrete Oval (Like the famous Dover, Delaware track)
1.5 mile Banked Asphalt Tri-Oval (Typical NASCAR track)
2.5 Mile High Banked Asphalt Tri-Oval (NASCAR style Super Speedway such as Daytona)

6. I would VERY much like the ability to restrict era or size of cars in Custom Events. i.e. Only '50's cars or only full size cars or only small cars, etc. to recreate specific types of races. Currently the only way to get only American V-8 cars in a race is to select "Derby" cars and they are not really suitable for racing. (It would also be nice to be able to limit either Custom Events or even on-line events to cars with few or even no modifications or allow only specific modifications.

7. Someone else said this somewhere but I agree that it would be nice to be able to remove the side glass from the El Camino and the rear glass from the other cars. (Adding any of the window bar options removes the windshields but unrealistically leaves the rear windows in place.) Rear window bar options would be a nice addition too. Some real world Derby cars look really cool with them.

8. It would be really nice to have a couple of servers that limited races to Oval and/or Figure 8 type events exclusively for on-line play. (It seems like every time I find a server that is running tracks I actually like they then go off into road courses or that AWFUL Dirt Devil Stadium which I hate SO much!)

9. I would LOVE to see some kind of over heating dynamic added to the game. If a radiator is damaged or a car is simply run too hard for too long it should begin to over heat. Badly overheated cars should run very poorly and eventually seize up altogether. I would also like to see engines "die" or shut off from spin outs or hard collisions and have to be restarted. Badly overheated cars should be especially hard to restart.

10. Cars are frequently MUCH to hard to spin out. Even on a small track at 50 - 60 m.p.h. spinning a car out should not require more than a gentle but consistent nudge and it should spin all the way around. Far too frequently a spun car will whip back and spinning cars from the outside is almost impossible. Edit: (It should NOT be like ice where just leaning on a car causes it to go spinning wildly. It should usually take a bit of continued and intentional pushing against the quarter panel or edge of the rear bumper. You should still be able to nudge or bump without spinning a car if you just want to "shake him up a bit" though occasionally, especially if that car is already on the edge of control, the car should spin even if that was not your intention.

Just for the record, I have been going to Destruction Derbies and Oval and Figure 8 races since 1979 and drove myself at Portland Speedway in Portland, Oregon from 1986 to 1991 so my comments are informed by my very real experience with real cars on real tracks.

I am sure I will think of more later but I would really like to get some feed back on all this.
 
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"1. The walls around the tracks are way too "sticky" or "grabby"."

I agree with this whole heartedly and have been complaining about it since early development of the game. In fairness, it used to be MUCH worse - scraping the wall at ANY speed would cause it to explode and grab you like Velcro, now it at least requires some force to break the wall and you can scrape against them a bit without too much trouble. But yeah, I've done Figure 8 and destruction racing over the last 5 years and even when the big ass school buses hit the wall, the wall doesn't explode. Worst we had was a bus whose driver got knocked out in an intersection hit and hit the back wall head on at speed, it pushed the wall back but it didn't explode into chunks.

"2. Body panels and bumpers detach FAR too easily. Could we at the very least get an option for "welded" cars where the bodies stay together?"

Another complaint I've had since the beginning. I always thought they should have added general strength upgrades in the form of welding body panels and doors. The fact that hood pins are entirely useless and that the doors can open AT ALL is ridiculous. Maybe that makes sense before you've begun modifying a car, but you should be able to weld those suckers shut and pin the hood down so it doesn't fly open in your view when you're racing in first person.

"3. Even in regular damage mode, cars frequently bend far too much or far too much from what should be minor collisions. If a car gets blasted at even 40 m.p.h. (60 Km/h) it should get deformed pretty substantially but I frequently see cars badly deformed from collisions that should not come close to doing the level of damage done. Also, cars with badly deformed driver's compartments or fully deformed and exposed engine bays should not be able to run at all. Wheels also sometimes get moved far out of place from where they should."

This has also been reduced in severity from alpha versions of the game. It used to be way, way worse and nearly every car on the track would be crumpled into a tiny cube by the end of the race. It's a lot better now, but yet, I agree. They could even factor this into upgrades- a roll cage prevents your car from completely caving in.

"4. I would like to see the ability for tires to be punctured or even shredded and this should effect handling of the car. Even GTA games have this to some extent, though not executed as well as it could be. (Ideally, different types of tires and even how worn they are should effect handling, especially on asphalt or concrete.)"

I don't agree here. While yes, it would add realism to the game, it would also be a serious drag because losing a tire to a wayward last place NPC car when you're in the lead on the final lap would just be rage inducing, not fun.

"5. I would like to see some more (and more realistically depicted) oval and Figure 8 tracks and SMALL Destruction Derby Arenas. Currently the only tracks that seem realistic are Bloomfield Speedway and Big Valley Speedway and even Big Valley Speedway, in its Figure 8 and Destruction Derby configurations, is not well done. For Figure 8 and "inner oval" races, the entire infield should be completely empty except for the paint lines on the track and perhaps some large heavy equipment tires"

100% agreed here, yet again something I complainted about in Early Access when Big Valley was the only Figure 8 available - the strategy of F8 races is knowing when to yield and when to risk it, and you simply can't do that when the intersection is blind. Figure 8 racing at Bloomfield is so much more enjoyable because there's actually a strategy to it. Also, all of the solid objects sticking out - yeah, I get that they want to give you opportunities to "Burnout: Takedown" your opponents by shoving them into a solid object around a turn... but this is a Figure 8 race, there's already immense hazard. No need to add more.

"6. I would VERY much like the ability to restrict era or size of cars in Custom Events. i.e. Only '50's cars or only full size cars or only small cars, etc. to recreate specific types of races. Currently the only way to get only American V-8 cars in a race is to select "Derby" cars and they are not really suitable for racing. (It would also be nice to be able to limit either Custom Events or even on-line events to cars with few or even no modifications or allow only specific modifications."

I think the car roster would need to be much larger in order for this feature to work, but I agree that it would be nice.

"7. Someone else said this somewhere but I agree that it would be nice to be able to remove the side glass from the El Camino and the rear glass from the other cars. (Adding any of the window bar options removes the windshields but unrealistically leaves the rear windows in place.) Rear window bar options would be a nice addition too. Some real world Derby cars look really cool with them."

And again, agreed - and yet another thing I've been asking for from day 1, a simple option to remove all glass. NO car in this form of racing is going to retain its side and rear glass. Windshield, maybe, depending on the track - but side and rear glass is a big no-no.

"8. It would be really nice to have a couple of servers that limited races to Oval and/or Figure 8 type events exclusively for on-line play. (It seems like every time I find a server that is running tracks I actually like they then go off into road courses or that AWFUL Dirt Devil Stadium which I hate SO much!)"

Yep. The only online racing I have an interest in is Figure 8 but seems like whenever I try to join a server that says it's on Figure 8, it ends up being some other crappy track.

"9. I would LOVE to see some kind of over heating dynamic added to the game. If a radiator is damaged or a car is simply run too hard for too long it should begin to over heat. Badly overheated cars should run very poorly and eventually seize up altogether. I would also like to see engines "die" or shut off from spin outs or hard collisions and have to be restarted. Badly overheated cars should be especially hard to restart."

If it's related to damage, I'd like this. I wouldn't want to see this be a result of cars that a run "too hard" though. As far as stalling out... it would be cool, but it would interfere with the "reset" button. That feature would only really work in super hardcore realism modes where the reset option is disabled.

"10. Cars are frequently MUCH to hard to spin out. Even on a small track at 50 - 60 m.p.h. spinning a car out should not require more than a gentle but consistent nudge and it should spin all the way around. Far too frequently a spun car will whip back and spinning cars from the outside is almost impossible."

All of my yes and once again something I've complained about for years. I HATE that I can get an AI car completely sideways, and not only can it magically straighten itself out, but it can even still maintain its pace. They don't necessarily have to make it any easier to get the car to spin, they just need to adjust the rubberbanding and auto-correction ability of the AI so that once you DO get them sideways, they aren't recovering from it. If the player car gets turned completely sideways, you aren't recovering from it until you come to a near stop. AI just keeps moving along at speed, sideways, and straightens out with ease.
 

RAND0M7

Member
3. Even in regular damage mode, cars frequently bend far too much or far too much from what should be minor collisions. If a car gets blasted at even 40 m.p.h. (60 Km/h) it should get deformed pretty substantially but I frequently see cars badly deformed from collisions that should not come close to doing the level of damage done. Also, cars with badly deformed driver's compartments or fully deformed and exposed engine bays should not be able to run at all. Wheels also sometimes get moved far out of place from where they should.
I didn't read all of it, but this here is a bad idea IMO. We want realistic damage, but we also want the arcade to be able to keep racing with serious damage. In real life you will not see two cars crashing head on at 100km/h and with such a hit we want to see how completely trashed it would be but also still race if we had armor on. I love it just the way it is with normal, realistic and insane damage, the only thing I agree with is the concrete walls, but that's probably got much to do with lag and thinking we hit it at a much greater angle due to the lag.

In real life most minor incidents forces people out of the race, which would ruin this game having cars wrecked so easily (or they could do it and just save that for 'insane' damage) and the other suggestion on reducing the deformity which would likewise destroy the game because then it would be like all the others where a crash at 100km/h looks like it just scratched the car. I also like the glass with some cars and it's more like you just picked them out of a used car lot and raced them rather then specially set up for such races to limit damage. Love seeing pieces fly off the car everywhere, just like a crash test dummy.

So realistic damage yes, but also arcade so that you can still race with severe damage and deformity. I love realistic damage how it is, and I love normal damage just for some fun in crashing and warping the car so much and still racing. But they could tamper with Insane damage I suppose.
 
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Thunderbyrd316

New Member
RANDOM7 I believe you either misread or misunderstood what I was suggesting. I like that cars that get blasted get bent up. What I do NOT like is a minor nudge causing a car to look like it got hit at 30 m.p.h. (50 Km/h). As for your assertion that "in real life most minor incidents force people out of a race", you must never have seen a Full Contact Oval or Figure 8 Demolition Stock Car race or a Demolition (Destruction) Derby. (Or if you are "across the Pond" a "Banger" race which is similar except that those guys are 10 X more nuts than their North American counterparts!) I have seen plenty of examples of VERY badly mangled cars still able to keep going. (But not with drivers compartments so deformed that the driver would receive fatal injuries. The BMW they added to the game awhile back seemed to do a good job of keeping the drivers compartment intact while still allowing the rest of the car to fold up.) And while some pieces SHOULD fly off of cars, body panels almost NEVER do in real life.

Oh, and by the way, I drove what we called the "Jalopy" division (Full Contact) at Portland Speedway from 1986 to 1991, both in races and Destruction (Demolition) Derby Finale style events. I got hit head on at Portland Speedway in 1987 in a Heat race by a '72 Chevelle that was going about 55 - 60 m.p.h. (90 - 100 Km/h) when I got spun coming off turn 2 in my '64 Mercury Monterey. Although the front bumper of that Chevelle got shoved right up to the firewall on the passenger side, my car, which had some pretty substantial radiator protection, was back out on the track for the Main about an hour later.

(And one day at Spanaway in what they called a "Cat and Mouse" race I saw a head-on where both cars were going about 60 (100). That was an especially ugly wreck but under certain circumstances they can happen. (I have also seen several occasions when one or 2 drivers get confused as to whether a race is an Oval or Figure 8 at the start and they meet the other traffic coming the other way between turns 1 and 2 at full speed right after taking the green!)

And one last thing, at most such venues, whether Demo or Demo car racing or even more conventional Stock Car racing, in North America you are required to remove the side glass and rear windows. Many now also require removal of windshields as well. (Some always did, especially dirt tracks.)

Upon rereading this before posting perhaps I could have cleaned this up a bit but it is late here on the West Coast and I have to get up in the morning to go to work so this comment will have to stand as is for now.
 
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