Autumn vibes

69Imperial

fuk tha mods #yolo #smdmajatek
Master Blaster
Speedevil said:
What about the maps boundaries then? Does the player fall out of the map if they drive through the boundaries?
Notice how he said "Invisible." ::) There's going to be visible barriers (like those 2D tree barriers in FO1/FO2/FOUC)
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Janne Suur-Näkki said:
Purple44
The general idea is that the player can free roam should he/she so wish, however we still have to find a good, least intrusive way to make sure the player doesn't accidentally drive the wrong way or skip checkpoints so there will be most likely some sort of feedback on the HUD. But, there will be no invisible barriers.
We at FOJ are use to racing without a reset map for community mod for FO2, so will not be miss. Part of the challenge of "Flatout racing" is finding good shortcuts! ;)

A year after racing Flatout 1 online, I was was still finding good shortcuts after following a player that took one that I have not tried before. Just learn a new shortcut last year with FO2.

But person placing checkpoints need to put checkpoints where he\she don't want players to cheat the track ( but do give us some places to shortcut the track a little ). In FO2 field track, you could hang a right and go through the lake for big shortcut if had enough nitro. When I do custom track, I try and place chekpoint in a solid object, so you either are inside of the checkpoint or your out.

Codemasters free derby racing track DLC for GRID 2, coder forgot 1 key checkpoint on one the derby racing tracks, now players can cheat a 1/4 of the track!!!! Big goof by Codemasters! :eek:



The spline points in FO2 work good to warn you if going the wrong way, unless doing a suicide track. I had to put spline points going one direction on one side of the track ( say left hand side ) and then had other set of spline points going in opposite direction on other side of track ( right hand side ). If you drive where the spline points are in opposite direction you can trigger wrong message and have to ignore it. :p

Is Bugbear looking to do things differently in track setup this time around, than what was done in the past?


"least intrusive way to make sure the player doesn't accidentally drive the wrong way or skip checkpoints so there will be most likely some sort of feedback on the HUD"

On the one hand thought this be a good idea, on the other hand, would make it easier for players to figure out ( checkpoints ) where you could cheat the track. :p
 

BenLind

Member
We appreciate the comments! We're probably going to post more behind the scenes stuff in the future if you guys are interested.
 

WolfSkyline

I have a life outside of posting in forums
Team Bugbear Member
Ben Lind said:
We appreciate the comments! We're probably going to post more behind the scenes stuff in the future if you guys are interested.
Great, i love too get in on the action!
 

RacerBest

Active Member
Team Bugbear Member
Ben Lind said:
We appreciate the comments! We're probably going to post more behind the scenes stuff in the future if you guys are interested.
I am interested. :)
 

NeatNit

Member
Full time wrecker
I would LOVE to hear all the stuff: technical, behind the scenes, etc.! It would be fascinating. It's frustrating (both for us and for you) that you don't have much to post because you're working on the engine more and on the content less - so you've nothing to show. You can simply talk about the engine!
 

John Burning

Create, destroy and dominate!
Team Bugbear Member
I'm so happy that there will be no unvisible barriers! I really like it in FO1. That is so cool, when you can fly out the track after a crash and then enjoy to watch your car smashing so long time.
 

Wurzsag

Member
Master Blaster
It's interesting indeed to get a glimpse of how environment is done. Don't know too much about technical side but I guess there is some more work to do with that foliage than just copy-pasting it in to the game. :D I hope more this kind of technical stuff is coming since people seem to like it and some may even learn something new from it. (At least I did)

Also it's brilliant that Bugbear is using beautiful Finnish nature as their inspiration. :)
 

dbs213

Active Member
Master Blaster
I'd definitely love to hear about any form progress :)
I've never actually pre-ordered any game before so hopefully this game should be worth it.
 

Usmovers_02

Active Member
Full time wrecker
Regarding a wrong way/reset indicator. It could always be made an option you could disable in the menus.
 

Janne Suur-Näkki

Administrator
Staff member
We're not yet sure exactly what kind of player feedback to implement when skipping a checkpoint or driving the wrong way, it all depends on how much of a problem it becomes. It's also something that we'd love to hear the community give input for. Multiplayer especially will need to have some kind of measures in place to prevent cheating.

That said, somehow I don't think an overly pernickety warning indicator that alerts whenever you cut a corner like ten inches or so fits the style of our game, so I'm pretty sure we're try to go around the problem by using more natural barriers such as ditches as such to prevent unfair cutting but at the same time allow relaxed racing line. In the style of folk-racing, you might say!
 

Usmovers_02

Active Member
Full time wrecker
Yeah, I was just about to suggest making excessive corner cutting extremely dangerous. I can definitely imagine scenarios where that may not always be effective though. This seems to be one of those areas where all options have both positives and negatives.

-You could make it so excessive cutting adds seconds to your final time but in an arcade setting you don't want to be worrying about tenths of a second.

-You could drastically cut engine power (Forza anyone?) but that's both highly annoying and completely unrealistic.

-You could have an auto reset zone but that could cause serious frustration and prevent free roam.

-You could have actual visible checkpoints that if you miss you have to go back and pass but that is an ancient gameplay mechanic that really doesn't fit here.


That's all of the ideas I can think of off of the top of my head (how many "of"s can you cram into a single sentence? I wrote it so many times I'm no longer sure it's a word, lol :p ).
 
M

Mopower

Guest
You could have trees and rocks and ditches that you may maneuver through or around, but you gotta go super slow through to make it through without getting butt F-ed. Or on ranch tracks just have a ditch
 

dave3d

Member
Full time wrecker
For SP, I like the 'you can go anywhere, but it will cost you' option.
Like, rocks/shrubs in the way of the 'easier offroad path', or some tree's (but not a forest, going off track is usually just to see the visuals for me).
Maybe just have a free-roam option, that really isnt a race, but lets the player mess around and go anywhere they want (within the limits of the map of course. this isnt an 'open world' game)?

I like the pre-built shortcuts, to a degree for actual racing. Sure, you can use them, but usually you have a trade-off. Slower terrain or more debris, but a bigger lead cutoff or more boost. I also liked that you had to play that map a LOT before you gopt the shortcuts right. But some of the shortcuts were just aggravating. WAY too much of a tradeoff. You would usually just end up tumbling head over heels, or go flying in the air so long that 3 cars pass you up. :p

I dont know about MP. The only MP car game I ever played was Carmageddon 2, and that was ages ago. Maybe have some pre-defined settings for the tracks, and let the admin choose which setting? Like, full shortcuts/out of bounds doesnt affect the car at all, but there will be no 'leaderboards' updated in this mode (but maybe a 'personal best' client side ui)? Full shortcuts, with some debris that will mess you up a little? Full shortcuts with more debris that will mess you up lots more? No shortcuts at all? No out of bounds at all? Combination of out of bounds allowed, but with varying debris?
 

Mohasz

Member
Weeked Smasher
Full time wrecker
Or you could make it like many old (though 2D) racers did. Your lap don't get counted if you make an excessive cut. But it might be quite difficult to implement properly in a game like this.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Or, if it not broke don't fix it. I think the short cutting in Flatout 1 and 2 was just fine over all. You had your Bugbear shortcuts that were pretty obvious, some were good shortcuts, some maybe not so good.

Then you had player found shortcuts. In FO1 it was risky taking these shortcuts with a red arrow, if you had to reset your car, you got reset back to where you cheated the track. I have lost a few races this way in FO1.

Some shortcuts you have to weave through some trees or go over rough ground, so you take your chances.

I'm going do up a video this morning showing some the shortcuts I use and some the risk involved in taking them.

Also Bugbear should get some kudos for the wheat fields and ditches with water slowing you down in FO 2. You had to be mindful of the need to keep you car on the track in some races. I hope Bugbear will do stuff like this again in NCG. :)

There more than just one way to discourage track cutting, if needed. ;) I tried to get Codemasters to do it in a patch for GRID 1. There were some tracks you could go cross country big time to cheat track, All Codemaster need to do was rough up the terrain so it would slow a player down enough to make shortcut not worth taking.

Janne Suur-Näkki said:
That said, somehow I don't think an overly pernickety warning indicator that alerts whenever you cut a corner like ten inches or so fits the style of our game, so I'm pretty sure we're try to go around the problem by using more natural barriers such as ditches as such to prevent unfair cutting but at the same time allow relaxed racing line. In the style of folk-racing, you might say!
I'm all for "allow relaxed racing line" like we saw in Flatout 1 and 2. Just be smart about where ya put the checkpoints, allow for some shortcuts to be found, but stop players from cheating the tracks big time.

Edit: video done, but not uploaded. Have to wait, bed time for me.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Got my video done and uploaded:

Flatout Shortcuts

This video is a small example of some shortcuts in Flatout 1 and 2. There 8 clips of different shorts cuts to be found in Flatout. Some are Bugbear short cuts, some are player found shortcuts.

Flatout 1 shortcuts:

Clip 1: This is a Bugbear shortcut. It not an obvious one, but it will not trigger the red arrow.

Clip 2: This shortcut is another Bugbear shortcut, but can be hazardous to your car if taken to fast. :eek:

Clip 3: There some good shortcuts to be had if you can avoid the trees. :)

Clip 4: Here a shortcut that was use online a lot. But it did trigger the red arrow, so you were screwed if you had to reset your car and ended up back where you cheated the track!!

Clip 5: Here a shortcut ( at 3:19 ) that I learn online following one the best KB players online with Flatout 1, Chaos or Khaos ( having trouble remembering how to spell his online user name :-[ )

Flatout 2 shortcuts:

Clip 6 & 7: Here a player found shortcut that can be taken 2 different ways, but if have wrong angle, watch out for that tree!!

Clip 8: This clip show the BIG shortcut a player could take across the lake. Bugbear miss not putting a checkpoint in front of cover bridge. :eek: This is the only big time shortcut that I would call a cheat in Flatout 2 that I know of.

The other shortcuts on this track are just fine. I learn the shortcut at 5:42 from MCORoyce last year. But it a risky shortcut, if you clip a tree or the tank. :p

**************************************************

That the thing about taking a shortcut in Flatout 1 or 2, is it worth the risk???? In 4 lap race, shortcut works good for the first 3 laps, then you screw up on the shortcut on the 4th lap and lose position!!

I think shortcuts ( alternative path ) in Flatout, be they Bugbear or player found shortcuts, is one the things that make Flatout racing a little extra special and hope they make a return in NCG. :D :D :D :D
 

NeatNit

Member
Full time wrecker
Purple44 said:
Clip 4: Here a shortcut that was use online a lot. But it did trigger the red arrow, so you were screwed if you had to reset your car and ended up back where you cheated the track!!

How come it counts the lap? Isn't it supposed to not continue to the next checkpoint until the current checkpoint is reached? Why can't you just drive halfway across the map and cross the finish line?
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
NeatNit said:
Purple44 said:
Clip 4: Here a shortcut that was use online a lot. But it did trigger the red arrow, so you were screwed if you had to reset your car and ended up back where you cheated the track!!

How come it counts the lap? Isn't it supposed to not continue to the next checkpoint until the current checkpoint is reached? Why can't you just drive halfway across the map and cross the finish line?
You got to understand, the red arrow does not have anything to do with checkpoints. Red arrow is triggered by the resetmap.raw file:



In pic above, if car goes into black area of reset map, the red arrow will trigger in FO1. Red arrow does not go away until you reset back to where you triggered the red arrow or drive car to where you triggered red arrow ( like drive around the track until you get to the point where you triggered red arrow\cheated the track ).

Here a custom reset map I did for my Bunker Hill Havoc Obstacle Course track:



minimap


It took some fine tuning to get red arrow to only show when I wanted it to.

Here video download link for Bunker Hill Havoc OC, will need Quicktime to play old mpg video:

www.flatoutjoint.com/downloads/purple44/FlatOut-1-Bunker-Hill-Havoc-OC.mpg
 
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