Hotfix 07-09-2014

MadFinnTech

New Member
Team Bugbear Member
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I'm not sure if this was case for everybody or just me, but after the last major update my system experienced big performance hit with this game. Sure graphics was improved a bit, but not enough in my opinion to explain to average frame rate to go down from ~50 to 30-35 frames per second. Thoughts?

Running at maximum settings with resolution 1920x1080

CPU: Intel i7-4770k @ 3.5 GHz
RAM: 8GB 1333 MHz
GPU: Geforce GTX 660 Ti 2 GB
Storage: SSD
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I'm not sure if this was case for everybody or just me, but after the last major update my system experienced big performance hit with this game. Sure graphics was improved a bit, but not enough in my opinion to explain to average frame rate to go down from ~50 to 30-35 frames per second. Thoughts?

Running at maximum settings with resolution 1920x1080

CPU: Intel i7-4770k @ 3.5 GHz
RAM: 8GB 1333 MHz
GPU: Geforce GTX 660 Ti 2 GB
Storage: SSD
Yeah, many players (myself too) have this problem. The cause is not yet known. Devs are working on it. Hopefully we will see the improvements the new engine (since build #5) was meant to brnig in future updates. For some players the new engine is already way better performancewise. SO I am confidet we will get that too :)
 

citizenerased

Member
Weeked Smasher
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

err said:
Usmovers_02 said:
I've kinda assumed they do because right now they're just so plain.
Here you can see comparison between track what is in development stage (what most tracks are right now) and final product.
I have no doubt that there will be much work done on those tracks before release.
One of the tracks in the retro demo is now the sandpit track, so it's come a long way. Maybe they have some other old tracks that they are adapting for NCG.
 

Daystar

Gone in 60 seconds!
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

crazychris4124 said:
When should we expect the Next Game Update?
Well since they are on Summer vacation status... I am guessing middle August probably. maybe even end of August.
 

R3dM0nKey

New Member
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Purple44 said:
It amazes me how different the game looks now compared to the scenes seen in the video.
I suggest bugbear to watch this video at least once a day to bring them back the memories of "what they promised".
(no offense here cause product can vary in develop process).
And is it only me or is the graphic better in the video?
(but I think drive ability is much more important)

I hope they use their vacations to refuel their energy and come back with a big bang.
Maybe they use the time to play more NCG ;)
 

Frisker

Active Member
Weeked Smasher
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

R3dM0nKey said:
Purple44 said:
It amazes me how different the game looks now compared to the scenes seen in the video.
I suggest bugbear to watch this video at least once a day to bring them back the memories of "what they promised".
(no offense here cause product can vary in develop process).
And is it only me or is the graphic better in the video?
(but I think drive ability is much more important)

I hope they use their vacations to refuel their energy and come back with a big bang.
Maybe they use the time to play more NCG ;)
I just hope they have enough time to clear their hangovers :D
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Why? maybe a littl drunk-programming will spice things up a little :D

Or do they have a saying like: Good devs don't let their collegues drunk-code? :D
 

Daystar

Gone in 60 seconds!
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Lari Fari said:
Why? maybe a littl drunk-programming will spice things up a little :D

Or do they have a saying like: Good devs don't let their collegues drunk-code? :D
Hahahaha!!! Omg Lari! You often crack me up with your cool humor!
 

Asido

(-(-_(-_-)_-)-)
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I think the handbrake is too sharp. I want to correct errors handbrake.
 
H

hande11

Guest
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Ryno917 said:
1) .. There is zero progression between understeer-neutral-oversteer. It just suddenly is sliding, or pushing straight, often swapping between the two. I'm not sure if it's because the FFB has changed (less informative than previous) so it just feels like it changes, or if the car really is flipping between neutral and oversteer. It's difficult to tell. It may just be the FFB not giving enough information quickly enough. The hotfix made this a little better, but it's still an issue. The cars just simply don't feel progressive enough in their behaviour. I feel that this is the reason a lot of users are getting snap over-corrective behaviour when they used to be able to carry long slides.

2) LSS - Lazy Slide Syndrome. Another very common problem in racing sims when you push beyond the limit (which you're nearly always doing in NCG!). The car begins to slide and slides sideways straight off the track. Attempting to correct this either has little to no effect, or it snaps you around as if you way over-corrected. If you floor it while this is happening, the car doesn't seem to rotate more, like it should, it just continues this awkward lazy slide. This is something I never had in NCG previously, but now I get it when on a long corner (Sandpit has a couple throughout the various layouts). The fact that it's difficult to counter could be down to the change in FFB, though, and not necessarily an underlying physics issue. Again, hard to tell, but it feels a lot like the lazy slide syndrome that plagues many racing sims (the ISI titles and iR both have this).

3) "Game Speed." I know a lot of people have been moaning about this, and I know the perceived difference is down to a narrower FOV, but I prefer something closer to what we had before, too. I don't like overly narrow FOVs in any game - it's disorienting to me. At the very least I think we should get a slider.
Well put! These items would be nice to be addressed as priority items on next update! I do feel too that this progression between understeer - oversteer is very erratic or very on/off, not linear any way in betweens (i did feel it was issue already in previous builds, but now on this build very underlined. I'm driving only with kb and xbox controller.. so one's mileage could vary too.

On the turns in sand or gravel would like to see possibility to get tail loose and slide trough or at least, part of the curve, now it seems almost impossible (=rear will stick/grip too much on surface, car front turns into inner turn yes, but front will be sucked into the inner turn. On lesser friction on sand and gravel, would like to see instead, that with enough speed, car continues momentum from inner turn towards outer turn (=sliding through the turn). With handbreak you get tail loose though, but then it feels car goes from: "sand/gravel friction directly to slippery ice" -physics model. When you get somehow into controlled slide, you're on "ice", but suddenly, when you compensate overturning in slide, it can suddenly grip again like in tarmac, making you spin instantly as a suprise.

Maybe car behaviour could be set more effectively according to each driver preferences by choosing and setting up car for this task (rear tires pressure, chamber angles, engine in front of the car to get more downforce on front, less to back) to get more oversteer on corners, where then, the tail will get loose if enough speed and with sharp turning the car into the inner curve (just like in rally cars, although yes, they are totally another world with all 4WD etc. :) These NCG cars are just metal boxes with some sort of tires. However, i think better physics should apply still here). Tried with different driving aids full/half/off.
Colin McRae put this oversteer behaviour in corners nicely in his rally school video: Colin McRae Basic Rally Techniques.

As Bugbear already told, they will anyway tweak a lot driving mode too, now that the engine has been rebooted. Waiting eagerly what next build unfolds :)
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I agree, too. But just one thing: Don't you mean wider FOV? Because its wider now, than it was before and thats why it feels faster.

3) "Game Speed." I know a lot of people have been moaning about this, and I know the perceived difference is down to a narrower FOV, but I prefer something closer to what we had before, too. I don't like overly narrow FOVs in any game - it's disorienting to me. At the very least I think we should get a slider.
 

Serenya

Member
Weeked Smasher
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I have had problems with the slow steering through keyboard since the last update, I'm not able to straighten the car if it starts to oversteer. The same problem occurred after the previous update as well, but it was fixed soon after.

Another problem is the weightless player car, I seem to be tipped over time after time by the European moped even if I drove the American Sedan myself, and I'm not able to pitmaneuver that little shopping cart at all.

About the damage btw, I've been missing the fun of the first builds and Sneak Peek where the cars really crushed the satisfying way like I would expect they to do, but it seems you're wanting to make this just another car game damage-wise. I know it's for us to last longer races, but now the crashes don't amuse me anymore...
 

Ryno917

Member
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Just did another quick test today (been too busy the last few weeks) and I have a couple more things to note

1 - I mentioned previously that the cars don't seem to 'bounce' on impact, they just plonk down and carry on as if they never took flight - they don't seem to have any inertia. It looks like this may be tied to the collision system as well (or have some effect on it, anyways), as a similar thing happened today when I got punted into a barrier - I hit the barrier at an angle (somewhere around 45 degrees to the barrier) and my car just stopped dead. It didn't rotate and change direction like it should have, it just stopped dead in its tracks, sitting at an angle to the barrier. The rear end of the car didn't lift up at all, either. Just stopped. Definitely not proper behaviour. Let me know if this point isn't too clear - I'm not sure I'm explaining it very well.

2 - FFB/Physics - I got a bit of a slide on entering a corner, and the FFB got a bit heavier. The opposite should really happen - when the car starts to slide, the wheels should want to automatically 'correct,' so the wheel should feel a bit lighter and begin to counter-steer a little on its own. Right now, it feels like the opposite is happening. This also forces over-correction by the player, since you're fighting the wheel to correct the slide, which means you have to impart more force, so once the slide begins to straighten and the FFB loosens you suddenly have no resistance (like an on/off switch) and then the wheel jolts because you're putting to much force into turning it. If the FFB behaved as it should (trying to slightly correct on its own) then you would be putting very little force on it to correct the slide, and as such once the slide begins to straighten you don't suddenly have this jolt and snap-over correction.

Just a couple observations from a few minutes of gameplay this morning. Hope that's useful and makes sense
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I agree on Nr. 1! Something needs to be done about car behaviour. Especially on jumps and impacts. Especially heavy ones either head on with other cars or into walls have to feel better. And the sudden force applied to the car(s) has to be more spectacular. Mainly in how the cars behaves itself, but also concerning sound and effects.

Can't say much about Nr. 2. Haven't played NCG with a wheel yet. but I understand what you mean, and how it should feel. The last game I played with a good FFB Wheel was Dirt 2 and I think they had it about right with the FFB. :)
 

Ryno917

Member
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Was able to run a couple more races:

1 - the snap over-correction doesn't seem to be (completely) tied to steering input. Entering a corner I had a small slide starting and then I did not countersteer at all and the car still snapped the opposite direction. Very strange behaviour.

2 - This one's been mentioned, but just for the sake of exposure - when you're grinding along beside an AI car (as in, you're both going roughly the same speed in roughly the same direction, but are door-to-door in constant contact) there is a constant increase in damage to the player car. Where in real life you'd wind up with a few body wrinkles and scuffed paint, in NCG after Update #5 you wind up with your door caved in a foot and your fenders pushed in behind your wheels. Not at all what should be happening. Car almost looks like a trapezoid from behind.

3 - At the start of a race, for the first few corners, when everyone is spitting dirt and dropping parts, there is a noticeable FPS hit on my machine when using the hood camera but not from the chase view - which is peculiar. I'd expect, as with all racing sims, a bit of an FPS hit for the first few corners of a race in a large field, but it's odd that it's not consistent between these two views.

4 - More a request than an issue, but any chance you could add a 'roof' camera? I can't stand cockpit views on single-screen setups (I don't have the physical space for a triple in my current loft) so I like to use hood or roof cameras, but due to the nature of NCG a hood camera can very easily become difficult to use after a couple bumps and bangs with the AI ;)

Something I've forgotten to mention, but all my comments come from testing on the gravel/dirt tracks. I forget the tarmac one is in the game sometimes. The snap switches in direction shouldn't be happening at all on dirt, regardless of steering input, as it is a loose low grip surface. On tarmac you can get quicker, snappy direction changes but dirt just doesn't allow that behaviour in the way I'm currently experiencing in NCG. This harks back to my earlier comments about 'progression.'
 

RagingRoach67

Member
Master Blaster
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

hande11 said:
Colin McRae put this oversteer behaviour in corners nicely in his rally school video:
That is an awesome video!! Thank you for sharing, always loving hearing tips from the pros :D
 
H

hande11

Guest
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Glad you liked it too! :)

RagingRoach67 said:
.. However! If you swap the 427 into any of the American cars, then they are drift kings. They handle phenomenally on both courses and are a joy to drive. I personally think they should always be like this, as long as you can balance the AI.
Big thanks back to you, RagingRoach67: i was just checking your finding that swapping big block, heavier V8 427 hp engine to American car affect their drifting / corner driving on sand / gravel tracks. What a great find! It seems really to have big positive effect, the handling improves hugely!
With bigger engine installed, it somehow alter physics so that now being able to also slide through the corners all the way and the oversteering compesation is not behaving erratically, ie. throwing the car like a "slingshot" to opposite direction when compensating / correcting car direction while sliding on the turns.

Can heavier engine bring more weight / mass to car, so it has proper momentum in turns (front will not be sucked anymore into the inner turn) ? Is it more front heavy and tail gets looser, so you can get that tail not gripping too much on turns? Or more hp for rear tires to achieve consistent powerslide? Or perhaps game engine / physics feature / bug? Tested using bigger engine while driving with kb only (lame), all aids full, or all off, except Stability control half.. the sliding through corners is much nicer now in both cases!

Todo: some more tests to do with American models + more heavy horses packed under the hood.. ;)
 

Shortcut

Member
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Ryno917 said:
Just did another quick test today (been too busy the last few weeks) and I have a couple more things to note

1 - I mentioned previously that the cars don't seem to 'bounce' on impact, they just plonk down and carry on as if they never took flight - they don't seem to have any inertia. It looks like this may be tied to the collision system as well (or have some effect on it, anyways), as a similar thing happened today when I got punted into a barrier - I hit the barrier at an angle (somewhere around 45 degrees to the barrier) and my car just stopped dead. It didn't rotate and change direction like it should have, it just stopped dead in its tracks, sitting at an angle to the barrier. The rear end of the car didn't lift up at all, either. Just stopped. Definitely not proper behaviour. Let me know if this point isn't too clear - I'm not sure I'm explaining it very well.

2 - FFB/Physics - I got a bit of a slide on entering a corner, and the FFB got a bit heavier. The opposite should really happen - when the car starts to slide, the wheels should want to automatically 'correct,' so the wheel should feel a bit lighter and begin to counter-steer a little on its own. Right now, it feels like the opposite is happening. This also forces over-correction by the player, since you're fighting the wheel to correct the slide, which means you have to impart more force, so once the slide begins to straighten and the FFB loosens you suddenly have no resistance (like an on/off switch) and then the wheel jolts because you're putting to much force into turning it. If the FFB behaved as it should (trying to slightly correct on its own) then you would be putting very little force on it to correct the slide, and as such once the slide begins to straighten you don't suddenly have this jolt and snap-over correction.

Just a couple observations from a few minutes of gameplay this morning. Hope that's useful and makes sense
Agree with that 100% and your second post too. The car crash physiks are not there and shoöd be implemented in the next update ;)
 
Top