Hotfix 07-09-2014

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hande11

Guest
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Was liking car handling with big block engine switched on American car and with Rally suspension, especially in gravel track, Sand felt ok too. In races, Full stability control made driving a bit easier (wish there would be also setting between half and full stability control..)

Agree with many others that driving still needs tweaking, i would wish to see it especially on tarmac. And i bet BB is already on to it! One annoying thing is lack of turn radius on tarmac. It feels terribly limited in tarmac and uber understeering (with keyboard). Here is example pic on maximum turn radius, when moderately accelerating on Figure of 8 -track, speed being roughly between 80-100 km/h (game engine made skid mark when was only accelerating in moderate speed, so one can see radius there nicely). Maybe turn radius is realistic (or is it?), but for game engine point of view and making tracks more fun and drivable, turning radius could be much more on these moderate speeds on tarmac corners / turns? On the other hand in lower speeds, turn radius feels sometimes too much, making car feeling "hovering", especially if you use the gas pedal, car becomes "hovercraft" too easily...

Setup: European car, default car setup, driving aids off except stability control: half, keyboard

Could turning radius be more on moderate speeds on tarmac (see pic) ?
 

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HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

u need to let of the gas when turning, driving the european car. It has a rear mounted engine, and will understear when accelerating. Try it. cos when u hit the gas, with so much power under the hood. It will rice the front wheels and push all of the cars weight to the rear tires.

And to the other gentlemen here. What ive seen so far this game are more suited for people who want nothing more than crash, cos the tracks so far doesnt give us much fun.
Flatout had jumps, turns, speedbumps etc etc. but NCG has no jumps, that feels like u flying. I like jumps, gives a little bit more fun, than the average racing.

People often thinks with their asses instead of using the brain. That goes for the supporters here att ncg forum, not BB..

However BB, what makes this game special over other car games? I mean, u got carmageddon reincarnation under development, a car crashing game with free roam and weapons on the cars. U got F1 games, also games like grid, Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo that has track racing, with some minor crash damage. But what will NCG give us, that will take it over the top?
If u just have track racing with lots of crash damage, it will be in the middle of all the shit out there. With flatout u had more fun for all, and it made u big, with the feeling of speed, jumps, slides, crash damage etc. than u have given us in NCG, no real feel to the game, other than speed and a little bit of crash damage. In Flatout, if u drove into a tree, ur car were demolished, now when u hit em in speeds up to 200kmh, u get a little smudge on the fender, same hitting objects and rails.
Just a heads up, nothing personal
 
H

hande11

Guest
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

HYLK said:
u need to let of the gas when turning, driving the european car. It has a rear mounted engine, and will understear when accelerating. Try it. cos when u hit the gas, with so much power under the hood. It will rice the front wheels and push all of the cars weight to the rear tires.
Just a quick response for handling alone, you're definately right on this. And with keyboard one is switching from one extremity to another (full throttle vs. no throttle at all).. and with kb, i bet at best one has only some sort of best compromise one can achieve. Tighter turn radius when accelerating, could go to more of "department of non-realistic simulation", agree (but maybe it could add some fun factor? => now, catched myself wanting good simulation there, more arcade on otherwhere.. :eek:).

BTW, i found out now that when driving Figure of eight with American car (default set up) that jump on middle of the track will actually demolish every time your car in landling, if you drive close to 100 km/h on it. When damage indicator goes yellow on front weels, it seems to affect turning radius we discuss here, car does not turn so much when it damaged. I actually did not notice this until now.. (now to think in general, i personally like damage affecting to driving capabilities, it is additional mini-game in itself to avoid too much damage. But on this track, it takes a bit the fun away when jump is damaging car every time).

Edit: sorry, as a forum newbie found out later that jump damage has been widely discussed already way back to history, it has own threads for example:
http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,3660.0.html
 

HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I play with keyboard, and the best track för me, are the tarmac track. and any muscle car of the 2 we got, but i go backwards on it, makes it more fun. Powerslides alot in it, and the cars just want to do it. So much fun.. especially with muscle car 2, the olds 442/Pontiac GTO JUDGE lookalike car.

car and jumpdamage are really nice, yeah some bugs still, like if u land on an opponent, ur car get crushed like its in the crusher.
 

conso1727

From Italy
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I'm pretty sure we won't see a non-beta release before the half of 2015
 

MSPORTBMW

Member
Master Blaster
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

:(
I was under the impression it was going to be this summer !!!.....However, im aware that bugbear changed the game engine so i was expecting a delay of some sort...but 2015??
I really hope not.
At least if it aint going to be done this year...please give us multiplayer soon.
 

Fisu

Member
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

hande11 said:
HYLK said:
u need to let of the gas when turning, driving the european car. It has a rear mounted engine, and will understear when accelerating. Try it. cos when u hit the gas, with so much power under the hood. It will rice the front wheels and push all of the cars weight to the rear tires.
Just a quick response for handling alone, you're definately right on this. And with keyboard one is switching from one extremity to another (full throttle vs. no throttle at all).. and with kb, i bet at best one has only some sort of best compromise one can achieve. Tighter turn radius when accelerating, could go to more of "department of non-realistic simulation", agree (but maybe it could add some fun factor? => now, catched myself wanting good simulation there, more arcade on otherwhere.. :eek:).
All rwd cars understeer in acceleration. Diff lock and rear engine only raise the understeering. You can give balance change with left foot braking without loosing grip from torque (I do not say this is working in this game yet).

But anyway good point to get all know these. We have to remember that many of players do not have driver license yet.
 

HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

probably whats wrong with the world of today, to much know it alls, that havent seen the steering wheels of cars yet, other than in outrun or something similiar..

unmature, unhealthy, and unjoystickings.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

MSPORTBMW said:
:(
I was under the impression it was going to be this summer !!!.....However, im aware that bugbear changed the game engine so i was expecting a delay of some sort...but 2015??
I really hope not.
At least if it aint going to be done this year...please give us multiplayer soon.
There was talk of releasing a full feature Alpha this summer, but that was before Bugbear spent 2 months working on the overhaul of the ROMU engine.

About timeline now:

When is the game coming out?

Jori Virtanen said:
June 09, 2014
This is correct. We're still lacking, to name a few of the features, multiplayer, game modes, tech tree, XP progression, tune-ups, music, career mode, etc. We're working hard on all those, but it'll take time. We're definitely not holding back on the release date out of spite. We'll tell you when we know ourselves. We were gunning for the end of the year release, but since we're currently focusing on overhauling the engine, we can't be sure we'll make it. So, we'd rather not give any promises now as we might have to let you down, and that would simply suck.

Once we get to the point where we start implementing the new features to the game, that's where it'll start to be interesting. That's when you'll get to try to break our game in earnest, as that's what helps us debug NCG to the max. But we're not there yet :)
 

Conte Zero

Crash hard, then crash harder.
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Small (but die-hard, experienced team), limited resources, limited money, a huge challenge ahead....

I will be happy if the game comes out and the whole project doesn't collapse on itself.
Just thinking out loud, sincerely.
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Im sure they have much more tracks/cars completed than they are showing us in this little test. So its not standing bad, but still need a lot of work on the damage, handling etc.
 

Calamann

I'm from germany
Weeked Smasher
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

I hope so????. But its better working longer than giving us a game with lots of bugs
 
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Have to be honest, if I could get a refund now I'd snap their hands off. Was really excited about the whole process of playing regular incremental updates and giving helpful feedback but it hasn't happened, just long periods of silence. This isn't what I signed up for, certainly won't be signing up for any more early access games which is a shame as the model should be a good one. The difficulty of game development and problems that occur are completely understandable, the lack of communication isn't in my opinion. Not throwing my toys out the pram here or trying to annoy anyone, just saying how I feel as a customer. Peace.
 

conso1727

From Italy
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

tigerwalms said:
Have to be honest, if I could get a refund now I'd snap their hands off. Was really excited about the whole process of playing regular incremental updates and giving helpful feedback but it hasn't happened, just long periods of silence. This isn't what I signed up for, certainly won't be signing up for any more early access games which is a shame as the model should be a good one. The difficulty of game development and problems that occur are completely understandable, the lack of communication isn't in my opinion. Not throwing my toys out the pram here or trying to annoy anyone, just saying how I feel as a customer. Peace.
This happened also before this update. It's only a matter of getting used to it.
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

tigerwalms said:
Have to be honest, if I could get a refund now I'd snap their hands off. Was really excited about the whole process of playing regular incremental updates and giving helpful feedback but it hasn't happened, just long periods of silence. This isn't what I signed up for, certainly won't be signing up for any more early access games which is a shame as the model should be a good one. The difficulty of game development and problems that occur are completely understandable, the lack of communication isn't in my opinion. Not throwing my toys out the pram here or trying to annoy anyone, just saying how I feel as a customer. Peace.
I do understand your disappointment, if you expected regular (weekly, monthly?) game updates and a daily (or so?) blog.

But to be fair: those things were never promised.

And concerning communication: I know we had some rough patches at times. BUT the last months (even during their summer holidays) the devs have been active in the forum, actually giving us exactly what most of us wanted (regular teasers of their work in progress and answers to our questions here and there).

Since Jori Virtaanen was hired and introduced himself to us, he is around here constantly. And even if his answer somtimes is just a simple "nope", often that is all you need ;-)

And considering the fact that there was a risk of only getting a very basic final release (without career and other stuff) due to lack of finances things are going very well (even if slow at times) now! :)

Hang in there!
Lari
 

V8-Cowboy

New Member
Full time wrecker
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Friends, lets not forget, this is PRE-ALPHA, which means that it can't even really be considered a game at this point. I can understand that it may feel like a one way street at times, but thats because at this point, it IS a one way street for the most part.

I support BB on this one. In PRE-ALPHA, the main features of the game are still being built. Do the devs really need our input to build the overall features that will make up this game? No, they don't. They have already proven that they know how to make a racing game. What they do need our help with is the details and the specifics and they want to know about what we want to see in our IDEAL flatout/BB racing game experience. This is something they have been doing too. They seem to be working extremely hard on the driving model (listening to what we want, releasing, retweaking etc etc), they release the figure 8 track upon request, and they have taken a stab at simple multiplayer.

I expect that communication will be much easier once we make it into alpha and throughout beta of course, but patience, at least for now is key.
To anyone who is dissatisfied with the service that bugbear is providing, I remind you, you didnt buy a game, you bought a ticket to this whole ride and there will be ups as well as downs.

- V8-Cowboy, Stoked on this thing.
 

Jori Virtanen

Automatic weapons and boundless love.
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Hurm.

Yeah, I can see how the lack of official communication can be crushing, especially when combined with the slow update speed of the past months. Most of it is tied to the engine overhaul and summer holidays, and it's hard to make updates about stuff like that. "Well, this week we cleaned some code. We'll be doing the same next week. The week after that, a colleague will return to work with a slight tan." :p

Still, yes, I suppose I could make more noise what we're doing, but that's a two-edged sword -- stuff that's under development for the next build looks to be extremely promising, but confirming those features is tricky, as if we decide we need to hone them some more and release on a later build, we'd have essentially just made empty promises, and that erodes our credibility. We don't want to talk the talk when we can't be sure we can walk the walk, so we'd rather be vague and/or silent.
The other point is that we want to drum up some hype with new features, and that can only be done properly once the build release is imminent. If we say "yes, multiplayer, near future!" all the time instead of biding our time and then going "yes, multiplayer, next build, NEXT WEEK!", it just doesn't have the same impact :p

As for "one-way street" and "not needing your help"... Well, that's kinda true. We've done racing games before, so we do know what we're doing. We could do this on our own for sure. But is your help beneficial? Absolutely. That's why it's essential to all involved that we listen to what you say, and take heed of the feedback given. There've also been a lot of good ideas that would suit NCG real well, so we are definitely listening in :)

But, indeed, it is getting better. With everyone back from the summer break and the engine overhaul over and done with, things should become simpler and faster, resulting in faster update speed. Hopefully we can stand behind of that promise of a better future.
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
Re: Hotfix Update 07-09-2014

Yeah! Lets make a better tomorrow... tomorrow! (Colbert Report reference) :D

I played a couple races yesterdy (first time since right after the last hot-fix). I complained a lot back then, because the handling had changed and I thought it was unplayable for me. But then I thought lots of other people can enjoy it, so I tried again. And I have to say: its not as bad as I originally thought.

I think we asked you to let us make our own mistakes when countersteering and you gave us just that. And then we started complaining. Quite unfair I guess :D

So after a while of getting used to it I say its manageable if you are careful enough, and now I actually think its OK. And I guess the snap in the other direction whe overcorrecting is realistic.

One situation thats annoying (realistic or not) is sometimes when you get into a long slide you reach a point where theres nothing you can do to correct. Tap gas, no gas, brake, handbrake... no mater what the car just continues in its slide. And that is before more than 90° turn are reached. Right there the game should be a little more forgiving. So if I release the gas and counter stear it should be possible to save the car.


One more thing I like when driving in games is the possibility to do a quick 180 when driving in revers fast and stering hard. This spin is possible atm, but somehow harder to do than one might think.

The car should automatically switch to neutral or use clutch when rolling backwards (for example after being spun by AI). That way turning back forward as described above gets easier and you get back in the action faster. Now I experienced that the race can hardly be won after spinning just once. This of course also having to do with the fact, that the player can't spin the AIs while its easy for them to spin the player. :)
 
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