Update 2015-06-30

Hunter

Member
I know what the biggest thing still missing from this game is though, a station wagon or a herse!

I really like the new cars in Build 7 though, love Escort Mk2's and Camaro's :D.
 

djfil007

Member
64-bit launcher isn't working for me. Loads black screen and I have to end via task manager as it goes non responsive. Wondering how much this may help with my next issue.

When I do play with the 32 bit launcher and identical graphics settings as before, I'm seeing a ~30% or more drop in frame rate. Hopefully optimization can get tightened up once again.

Triple screen support still stinks. Please get HUD centered to middle screen, and interactive menu buttons on main menu to center screen too.

Wheel support still needs work. Everything maps fine buy 270 degrees of rotation or it feels sloppy, way too low. Force feedback needs lots of work... go try the latest builds of DiRT Rally.

I like the new driving physics for the most part. However I found all the cars that I tried had crazy grip issues in the rear end, very drift happy. Also I find the crash damage has been weakened too much.

Thanks for the big update. Hope updates become more frequent from here in.
 

Firebird

Member
Full time wrecker
Update 30/06/2015

Likes
-New cars
-Handling

Concerns
-Graphics look worse
-Too much saturation and contrast (brake lights turn orange too)

I've heard the rendering engine is still WIP though
 

Ricsek

Member
I'm using Windows 8.1 64 bit, AMD Phenom II x4 965 Processor, 8,0 Gb ram, AMD Radeon HD 6800 series. In the previous upde in full hd with high textures and others on medium i had 40-60 fps. Now using the 32 bit version i have 10 fps more than with the 64 bit, but everything is in low and i have 25-30 fps in full hd, if i set everything at the lowest, the resolution too, i have 30-40 fps...
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
FAN_RJS said:
Wich was VERY wrong is the force feedback, something is wrong with the force represented, it acts like right if you have the car gripping, but once your front wheels "slide" a little it "turns off"... thats not good at all. If the problem is that a specific force value is not being represented by the ffb system in the game (like tyre / hub position or lateral force) could be "easy" to fix, but im bit worried if something is actually having a value around 0% in the game once the tyre´s slide.
I agree with this.

If my steering wheel is centered, I feel the force feedback going on. If I turn wheel right or left, wheel FF goes limp like I'm airborne off a jump. It finally hit me late in the day why I was losing FF feel, it when the tires are smoking\ sliding when I turn into a turn.

**************************************

Also when I was online tonight, must the time the cars did not take much damage, even when hit hard. That was part the fun of online racing is seeing the cars suffering some major damage after the chaos of an oval race.
 

Yatta

New Member
Weeked Smasher
If my steering wheel is centered, I feel the force feedback going on. If I turn wheel right or left, wheel FF goes limp like I'm airborne off a jump. It finally hit me late in the day way I was losing FF feel, it when the tires are smoking\ sliding when I turn into a turn.
[/quote]

Yeah, feels like the FFB is inverted. FFB strength should go from -100 to 100.
 

MSPORTBMW

Member
Master Blaster
Purple44 said:
FAN_RJS said:
Wich was VERY wrong is the force feedback, something is wrong with the force represented, it acts like right if you have the car gripping, but once your front wheels "slide" a little it "turns off"... thats not good at all. If the problem is that a specific force value is not being represented by the ffb system in the game (like tyre / hub position or lateral force) could be "easy" to fix, but im bit worried if something is actually having a value around 0% in the game once the tyre´s slide.
I agree with this.

If my steering wheel is centered, I feel the force feedback going on. If I turn wheel right or left, wheel FF goes limp like I'm airborne off a jump. It finally hit me late in the day way I was losing FF feel, it when the tires are smoking\ sliding when I turn into a turn.

**************************************

Also when I was online tonight, must the time the cars did not take much damage, even when hit hard. That was part the fun of online racing is seeing the cars suffering some major damage after the chaos of an oval race.
I have to agree with purple and many other concerning the damage. It has taken a big step backwards i think.....I was hitting cars at like 90mph side on, and it hardly left any damage.
For me, online was terrible and i have fast internet......When im racing cars side by side, it looks like the cars are yoyo's jumping backwards and forwards. And also at the start, the cars get in their grid positions at the last second and collidide with each other before the race even starts....causing damage for some cars. Also the sense of speed seems to have gone.
Good points.....New cars.....lots of new game options/stats/race timer with 1 extra digit is also very welcome, more paintjobs.
 

Sonblade

New Member
Weeked Smasher
Some of my thoughts on the patch:

  • I do like the new lighting, but I would like to see it in other weathers
  • The damage modeling on the new American Muscle is rather weak. It feels more like the car is shrinking than taking damage
  • Derbies take for-fucking-ever now
  • The American Sedan seems to roll super easy now
  • I can understand the new American Muscle bouncing quite a bit since it's suspension is very low, but every car bounces like they're on trampolines

But hey, there's a reason that this is in Early Access: The game needs work to get where it needs to be.
 

pben1

Member
I re-installed on WinXP 32bit, but don't have a 32bit exe in my directory so it won't even launch. I know my PC is old spec but is was working prior to update can devs give me some info on this please
 

plakman

Member
MSPORTBMW said:
Purple44 said:
FAN_RJS said:
Wich was VERY wrong is the force feedback, something is wrong with the force represented, it acts like right if you have the car gripping, but once your front wheels "slide" a little it "turns off"... thats not good at all. If the problem is that a specific force value is not being represented by the ffb system in the game (like tyre / hub position or lateral force) could be "easy" to fix, but im bit worried if something is actually having a value around 0% in the game once the tyre´s slide.
I agree with this.

If my steering wheel is centered, I feel the force feedback going on. If I turn wheel right or left, wheel FF goes limp like I'm airborne off a jump. It finally hit me late in the day way I was losing FF feel, it when the tires are smoking\ sliding when I turn into a turn.

**************************************

Also when I was online tonight, must the time the cars did not take much damage, even when hit hard. That was part the fun of online racing is seeing the cars suffering some major damage after the chaos of an oval race.
I have to agree with purple and many other concerning the damage. It has taken a big step backwards i think.....I was hitting cars at like 90mph side on, and it hardly left any damage.
For me, online was terrible and i have fast internet......When im racing cars side by side, it looks like the cars are yoyo's jumping backwards and forwards. And also at the start, the cars get in their grid positions at the last second and collidide with each other before the race even starts....causing damage for some cars. Also the sense of speed seems to have gone.
Good points.....New cars.....lots of new game options/stats/race timer with 1 extra digit is also very welcome, more paintjobs.
The damage part is something that has to be redone now.

Like he said, if you hit a car theres barely any dmg to be seen.
Just tried 3 races and each time my car looks perfectly fine but yet it's totalled.
Not even 1 part bended AT ALL!

hitting a wall also leaves no damage it seems. ( to the car that is )

The damage was so much better before the update even though it was unrealistic.
I really wish bugbear would use the sneak preview to let us test these kinds of things first.
 

Big Ron

Member
I am not sure how to judge the new update. I know that everything was redone game- and engine-wise to build up a new base for the game. The first thing is that the graphics lost lots of its fidelity and life, looking dead now and a bit like rFactor1. Not sure if some shader-settings got lost or something. But no godrays or lensflare, not ground shader- sun reflections, less lively car reflections. Not sure about the performance of the game, in 64-bit it´s a lot worse than before in a normal build. I can´t run the game on the same settings with the same framerate while the new graphics look worse. Need to test the 32-bit-version.

One of the things I really don´t like is your damage model. IMO it sucks. Cars act like diecast-models made of gum or plasticine. There is no basic structure keeping the cars intact, but rather everything deforms in stupid ways making the cars look ugly as shit after two turns. Like someone who has exploded a hand grenade in front of the face.

I guess you know what this is?



On the other hand, the two new cars are great. Looking great and fit the game perfectely.

Handling is a two-sided blade. I like the approach of a more challenging handling model with a bit more realistic approach. Suspension animations are better than before IMO making the car acting a bit more comprehensible on bumps. But the tire model isn´t that great, at all at the limit. Cars spin out without reason. There´s no grip and tire friction coming back at the limit from a certain sliding angle. Any counter steering doesn´t help to get the car back in line, but just spinning out. Thatcan be felt especially with the new cars. The cars should be easier to control at limits for better position fights and actions on track. At the moment players and AI are more fighting the cars rather fighting for positions.

On of the bad things of the update is that there are still the old glitches in the physics-engine. The worst is the glitch when cars get stuck in the ground at uneven places or after high jumps, causing physics- bugs and glitches, even acting like a bomb sending cars to the moon. Funny is that nearly any jump on known tracks has been defused which gives the impression that the developers rather neutralized any reason to cause the glitches rather than deleting the glitch itself. Without the cool jumps on some tracks, they feel a lot more boring than before.

At all, I am not seeing any reason for such long work behind closed doors for now which helps the game to make a step forward. Instead it´s sill the same game with same problems and same positives. Maybe even more problems than before.

Let´s see what can be done with the new system and some further updates.
 

KazzyMac

Unce Unce Wub-wub-wub
Team Bugbear Member
I don't really have any problems with the handling so far. Granted I'm driving on a 360 controller and I have traction/stability control on Half, but all I do is either brake/lift before the corner or just go through at about 90-95% throttle and for the most-part I'm fine. The American that looks like a big Trans Am (without rear lights -- sorry, I haven't played in forever) is really tail-happy though but I can't tell if it's faster letting it slide or not.


Graphics/stability with the physics and whatnot is terrible though. I'm getting a lot of slowdown/catchup with the frame rate for no reason, and I'm getting 30fps on most maps when I swear I should get 60. Even didn't use MSAA the whole way and tried on 720p, so there's some performance issues that need fixing. Steam threads are full of rage too about this being a 'downgrade' and to be honest there doesn't seem to be a lot of destruction any more compared to other builds.

The AI are terrible too lol. They're so slow.
 

Big Ron

Member
KazzyMac said:
I don't really have any problems with the handling so far. Granted I'm driving on a 360 controller and I have traction/stability control on Half, but all I do is either brake/lift before the corner or just go through at about 90-95% throttle and for the most-part I'm fine.
I´ve tested without driving aids like ABS or traction control on a XBOX360-gamepad which highlights the problems of the tire model at limits. I guess, with driving aids it´s not a real problem because the computer suppresses the difficulties of the grip levels.
 

RickyBobby

Member
As an occasional gamer I want a game, that is fun to play. I don't care if it's real physics or not. If it feels good and right it's fun to play. I liked the flatout series, because it felt like good physics and had awesome damage models with great crash scenes... So I mainly care about the "look and feel" of the game. both got kind of worse, i'm afraid. but nothing that can't be fixed.



Firebird said:
Update 30/06/2015

Concerns
-Graphics look worse
-Too much saturation and contrast (brake lights turn orange too)
that's what i was thinking too. If you could adjust the Contrast and Colour Saturation to your liking, that would be awesome.
for example...
... maybe even less of both. and bring back the hills on sandpit please! was best part.


my plus (+) and minus (-) list would probably start like this...

- shaky cam on hits
- graphics look worse than before
- My favourite part was on the Sandpit Track, which is now missing the little hill close to the end, where the AI always messed up and produced awesome crashes. (Picture above)
- I liked the damage model much more before. now it almost looks like the games i don't like because of that. just bring back the old one please.
* handling got kind of harder especially without traction control, using keyboard, but may have to switch to wheel (buy one first), if traction control won't be available in MP. have to learn to drive again.
- too bouncy. cars jump like monstertrucks. sometimes tend to roll over too fast.

+ most of what sam223 wrote here BETTER [list type=decimal]
[*]In game server options. [*]Mid race chat. [*]Mid race server spectator. [*]Free spectator cam on-line.
[*] New ford RS rims - Need some Wellers and ford Revolutions alloys now
[*]More style slots,and more default paintjobs are nice.
[*]Improved server browser.
[*]Car setup saved after closing game.
[*]Additional options for detail levels,now 4 stages instead of 3
[*]Team racing,elimination is so-so imo (probably wont use it unless no choice)
[*]Race now lasts until you have finished,no more ending race when winner has crossed the line 1-2 laps ahead
[*]More laps
[/list]

EDIT: forgot a good thing - it's now easier to drive offside the track, which does not make you fall back soo many seconds like it used to. that's better.

there's probably more I forgot about right now. oh yeah some graphs in the advanced control section would be helpful. with time on the x-axis and steering angle on the y-axis. if anyone understands what i mean... at first i did not understand what i was supposed do adjust there. (english not my first language)

So overall there are many good small improvements, but some major worsenings(?), that impact the 'look and feel' of the game big time. esp. handling/bouncing/no traction (which i could adjust to maybe) and damage model. oh yeah and the old sandpit please :)
 

sam223

Active Member
Weeked Smasher
Big Ron said:
One of the things I really don´t like is your damage model. IMO it sucks. Cars act like diecast-models made of gum or plasticine. There is no basic structure keeping the cars intact, but rather everything deforms in stupid ways making the cars look ugly as shit after two turns. Like someone who has exploded a hand grenade in front of the face.

I guess you know what this is?



On the other hand, the two new cars are great. Looking great and fit the game perfectely.


Cars are to strong under high speed impacts currently imo
 

Big Ron

Member
Best handling model of this kind still can be found in Driver: San Francisco IMO. Challenging handling model, but perfectly controllable and good for great actions without caring two much about realism. Works onroad and offroad in a great manner.

I also like the handling model in Flatout 1, too. The current one is probably great for a simulation-approach, but takes away action and fun on tracks.

sam223 said:
Cars are to strong under high speed impacts currently imo
And they are way too fragile on low impacts IMO. I agree that high speed impacts don´t show enough consequences visual-wise where any part of the car should give up. But under little impacts cars deform as is there is no basic structure under the thin outer panels.
 

sam223

Active Member
Weeked Smasher
Big Ron said:
Best handling model of this kind still can be found in Driver: San Francisco IMO. Challenging handling model, but perfectly controllable and good for great actions without caring two much about realism. Works onroad and offroad in a great manner.

I also like the handling model in Flatout 1, too. The current one is probably great for a simulation-approach, but takes away action and fun on tracks.

sam223 said:
Cars are to strong under high speed impacts currently imo
And they are way too fragile on low impacts IMO. I agree that high speed impacts don´t show enough consequences visual-wise where any part of the car should give up. But under little impacts cars deform as is there is no basic structure under the thin outer panels.
On or offline testing? Ive been mainly testing online, takes no damage from a big hit and then someone warps into me whilst racing side by side and i take massive damage.
 

Big Ron

Member
sam223 said:
On or offline testing? Ive been mainly testing online, takes no damage from a big hit and then someone warps into me whilst racing side by side and i take massive damage.
Offline. Online shouldn´t be a base for judgement because the system itself isn´t stable and can cause lags, glitches and what not. Or warping cars into each other overloading the damage model.
 
The damage model, possibility of being taken out and general chaos are the core foundations of what this game is. Don't just try to be another racing game when you did the former so well in the previous builds. As others have said the damage just doesn't do the game or original concept justice any more. Please remember what you sold this game on originally. This is a work in progress though, so hopefully with time this will come back.

All the best.

-Dan Moth
 
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