Update 2015-06-30

Cono

Member
sam223 said:
Cars are to strong under high speed impacts currently imo
This is the only thing that shouldn't be too realistic.
I think cars are even too fragile now (for banger race).
 

sam223

Active Member
Weeked Smasher
Cono said:
sam223 said:
Cars are to strong under high speed impacts currently imo
This is the only thing that shouldn't be too realistic.
I think cars are even too fragile now (for banger race).
Visual damage should be realistic. Otherwise whats the point of crashing and playing this game. Theres plenty of older games with better physics engines than wreckfest minus the good visual damage.
Performance/handling damage doesn't need to be realistic i agree. Should be setup for gameplay purposes.
 
RickyBobby said:
Firebird said:
Update 30/06/2015

Concerns
-Graphics look worse
-Too much saturation and contrast (brake lights turn orange too)
that's what i was thinking too. If you could adjust the Contrast and Colour Saturation to your liking, that would be awesome.
for example...

and bring back the hills on sandpit please! was best part.
saturation seems ok to me but the contrast is not eye contrast but the contrast of a camera lens i think. so dark areas like shadows next to light ones appear black. the human eye actually can handle high-contrast views much better than a camera and i want to look through my eyes not through a cam.
as i look at tarmac the trees and especially their shadows are too dark.
on oval1 the shadows are too dark, too.
on other tracks i didn't really notice yet but contrast seems to be a problem atm.

sandpit now is actually a good track although we lost one for that. what really is missing now are the hills, making the track insane. literally. i mean just not sane anymore as it's a cutting sandbox now. but i like it anyways.
 

FunnyBunny14

New Member
The damage model is indeed my biggest issue with the game right now. I can hit walls head-on at 100 km/h without taking any damage. To be honest, I still find it an improvement on the old model. There, on the old one, I could barely finish a lap before wrecking my car completely. Now I can at least finish a race. But... a head-on collision at 100 km/h should at the very least always give 50% damage to the car (75% is probably best, but hey, this is your game).

All in all, this update is a massive improvement. The cars handle great (no more insane sliding :p ) and the it is more enjoyable to play.
I can't wait for the next update (oh, the car modifying potential now!)

Other feedback:
Lighting: it's not great... It's OK, but not as good as before.
Shadows: they drain performance a lot. Any way to optimise that would be greatly appreciated.
23 opponents: Not really playable with this. Barely at minimum settings, definitely not at half. And I have the recommended specs...
Ambient occlusion (I believe): this setting appears in the launcher, but not in the game.
Launcher: For now it would be better if it stayed.
Settings in the game: brilliant addition!
Handling: maybe make it a bit easier to loose control/drift. Right now the cars feel a bit too stuck to the road...
 

Mortal

Member
My Fast Feedback

I think the new physics is a big step in terms of suspension is much better now, but still require physical work, I think he is easy to dump the car barrel, need to polish it a little.

Tires now on asphalt clearly is better, and more realistic, I would add to take tire puncture at the wheel, and especially in the tires of the track that you step over, needs some interaction bumps to give more realism, not through so unreal, also when you hit one a small vibration in control pad it would be more immersive.

On the damage, I think the concept is good, more realistic, although I think they are now a little hard, I can have significant impacts against a surface and barrel and the ceiling remain intact even scratch etc. I think if you increase a little enter in an environment best.

Good work, and keep it up.
 
So I’ve been mucking around with this for about a day now, and I’ve also been monitoring the feedback from various members of the community. Poor show, community. They obviously worked hard and I kinda feel bad for bugbear having the forum erupt so negatively. So… yes they got a lot wrong but they also did a lot right. Here we go:

Driving Handling
The good
>When you say you got a simulator grade engine under the hood, it’s believable. Suddenly I feel like the car has four points of contact on the road with the tyres. I can even drive on two wheels which was pretty cool. There’s a natural transition between being on your wheels and rolling over. It’s not as sudden as it used to be. Previously the car “felt” like it was on a single rail of some kind down the center of the car, if you tipped the car more than 10 degrees you fell off the “rail” and rolled violently. So suddenly the car feels like it’s on 4 tyres. This is an improvement, and an important one.

What needs improving
>Well there’s too much grip, power sliding around tight corners is a bit harder. Cars are also quite numb, while I can see them reacting to bumps and things in a very cool way they’re on shocks that are frankly unrealistically good. People are complaining that they can’t “throw the car around a corner” and I have to respond with… throwing it at corners is precisely what I’m doing and the car is perfectly stable. The handling is TOO easy. I also had an incident where losing control, in a real car I’d release throttle to gain traction and countersteer out of the skid. In This, the skid was irrecoverable.

TL;DR: The handling improvements are positive, the car now feels realistic enough but the tuning for the vehicles isn’t “raw” and “bouncy” enough to make it particularly satisfying. Take a look at Dirt Rally. That has ideal vehicle handling, it’s punishing and scary without being full on “simulator feel”. It’s a fantastic bit of simcade rally handling. Something similar to that would suit the offroad flavour of tracks we have.

Damage
The good
>Obviously you’ve been tweaking that, I can see some differences in the way that the car deforms. If I’m not mistaken there appears to be some approximation of the frame bending. Both cars take damage in an impact now, which actually is something that’s made online more pleasant because the dirty drivers now have to be careful about dirty driving. It’s nice being on the same server with them. Also noticed dynamic objects do damage to cars now and that was rather delightful. Also, mechanical damage appears to be based off of deformation. This is a massive improvement over impact force. Things are starting to feel more organic.

What needs improving
>Cars are made of cheese. Still. Low speed impacts do too much damage, high speed impacts don’t deform the car enough. But I’ve also noticed while running over tyres and hitting cars head on that my dashboard will get pushed into my face fairly easily. Cockpit deformation needs some serious tuning down if nothing else.

AI
The good
>The AI is actually getting a bit more challenging to play against. It knows now how to take a corner and it seems to have some ability to avoid having a crash. This makes racing a bit more intensive. It’s getting there. I can see it’s now able to drive rather well. Keep heading in this direction.

What needs improving:
>It’s so slow, I have to pick the lowest power band cars in order for the AI to be competitive. Also it’s not really aware of me or even other AI cars. This means a distinct lack of aggressive or defensive driving. If accidents happen its simply because they haven’t avoided it. It would be cool if the AI had personality types that range between aggressive, defensive and passive. I hear you have plans for that, so I look forward to seeing where it goes.

Graphics
The good
You’re on a new rendering engine and I can see an improvement right away in colour contrast and shadows.

What needs improving
Keep at it, when compared to the screencaps of other versions I can see things like specular reflections aren’t quite right and things may be a little too dark in unlit areas. The lighting and shading seems a bit flat. But it’s lacking ground shading, intense reflections etc. I suspect that’ll come along in another pass.

Overall feel

Things are feeling more organic now, but oddly the handling has become more arcade-y than before. They say it’s become more boring… sort of. It’s because things aren’t yet tuned properly. Cars are too fragile in small impacts meaning that I am reluctant to make body contact. But high speed impacts don’t seem to be much more risky. Meaning there isn’t much of the side by side shunting and ramming that made things hectic. Handling is too easy, meaning that it’s not really all that thrilling to go fast. The “seat of your pants, edge of the car’s abilities” feeling has disappeared. Patch 7 IS a positive thing, but patch 8 needs to get the tuning right.
 
Hati Hroovitnisson said:
Damage
The good
>Obviously you’ve been tweaking that, I can see some differences in the way that the car deforms. If I’m not mistaken there appears to be some approximation of the frame bending. Both cars take damage in an impact now, which actually is something that’s made online more pleasant because the dirty drivers now have to be careful about dirty driving. It’s nice being on the same server with them. Also noticed dynamic objects do damage to cars now and that was rather delightful. Also, mechanical damage appears to be based off of deformation. This is a massive improvement over impact force. Things are starting to feel more organic.
i hit a tree with 70 km/h and car got a scratch (visible. physical it got to yellow). if i hit a tree with a real car with 50 km/h it's much much worse.
cars can actually take far too much damage for a sim. and for arcade too i think. if i hit a tree with 150 km/h that's death for sure. modern cars can lower the effect on the driver by far but still this is deadly in most cases. and of course old cars didn't that well.

what the problem now is is that the outer part of the car like hood, bumpers, door, etc take way to much damage before they quit. visible damge is too less now.
 

glodesh

New Member
Weeked Smasher
i' am still shocked about this update. I don't understand why they change all the game. The game was almost perfect, all we wanted was new cars, new track new game mode, some ajustment, that's all. The graphics was really acceptable. It was absolutly not necessary to change ALL. The result is now worst than the previous build. It's hard for me to say that because i love this game and i like the BB team but the game lost ALL the fun. I'm sorry but the physics is not impressive at all against the previous one.
And one detail that means everything, come on! How could you put that SHITTY SHAKING camera. No way!!! i was thinking i'm playing a UBI game, COME ON!!!!!

I do not what to say, i'm really speechless about the way this game is going. You forget the fun when you made this build. I waited 8 month for nothing.
So now i really hope that you realize all the disappointment about the community and rectify the situation.

I like you anyway guys because i know that you wanted the best game for us .
 

CLeN

Member
Weeked Smasher
I personnaly understand the new engine, and we can see that it can be better than the old engine, the tires are really better than ever, they need to bring back the old car deformation.

You can now turn of the Shaky cam in the settings since the hotfix released few hours ago.

The game is fun online, especially with the new game modes.

But yes, more destruction, and fix some objects (like tires) dealing too much damage.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Hati Hroovitnisson said:
Overall feel

Things are feeling more organic now, but oddly the handling has become more arcade-y than before. They say it’s become more boring… sort of. It’s because things aren’t yet tuned properly. Cars are too fragile in small impacts meaning that I am reluctant to make body contact. But high speed impacts don’t seem to be much more risky. Meaning there isn’t much of the side by side shunting and ramming that made things hectic. Handling is too easy, meaning that it’s not really all that thrilling to go fast. The “seat of your pants, edge of the car’s abilities” feeling has disappeared. Patch 7 IS a positive thing, but patch 8 needs to get the tuning right.

Thanks Hati for your thoughtful post. I be curious what controller and what assists you are using?

I'm using a DFGT wheel, auto tranny and no assists and I would say the handling has become more simy compare to Build #6. I now have to brake earlier before a turn and have to get off the brake before I start turning, or car don't want to turn. Wreckfest used to act like this back when you could change the brake bias and swap to race or dirt tires in earlier Builds. For me, the handle has not gotten easier. But I'm OK with that if a can now figure out to get the cars to stop going to wide sometimes even thru I slowed car down for turn and I'm off the brake.

Is it me and my advance wheel settings that still need tweaking or when we get to pick the right tires for the track surface, I will have better control the car?

I hear there a new hotfix, time go give it a try. :)

PS to all posters, I think it be helpful to Bugbear when you are posting about how you feel about the handling in Build #7, you also say what controller you are using and if using any assists and if using auto or manual tranny.
 

YesNo

New Member
I like where wreckfest is going , its a little bit heavy for my medium pc now :)
Good work, and keep it up.
 

kamikave

Member
Full time wrecker
Funny how tha game became more and more unplayable updates after updates with the same graphic parameters. Guess I won't be playing it again until I can buy a new PC, by then the game might be as old as FO:UC. That's the only feedback I can provide.
Until then, cheers.
 

St. Jimmy

Finland
Full time wrecker
I understand that this is the build after rewriting big chunck of the engine. Adding new renderer PBR, DX11, new physics, 64-bit, dedicated servers and so on. This build is a big change in the heart of the engine so bugs and half implemented things were expected from me. I'd been freaking shocked if the build had been as stable and enjoyable as the last builds.This time it's different and it's nice to see that even BB are mortal men :D

Driving physics:
I can feel that there's more parameters going on. The car feels more like it's sitting on four wheels and not like in the last builds where it felt like a box. There are many things off and some are step in the right direction.
There's still no feel that you could drive at the sweetspot. Too much grip that causes understeer but at the same time the tires are slipping under but they don't give oversteer. No matter how much you try to find the sweetspot you can't find it with turning the wheel and trying to give some oversteer with gas. Almost only time to get some oversteer is when you're almost spinning. The most weird is the Fiat, when you turn the front tires, the rear tires are spinning like crazy but the car just understeers and doesn't accelerate because the back doesn't push it.
Brakes are locking up and causes more understeer then. Enough good so far, better focus on other things.
The back tires sometimes feel like they're spinning in the air even though they should be on the ground. Front tires feel like they're always turned too much or otherwise you couldn't turn anywhere.
The problem with driving physics in this game has always been that I can't push the car at the limits. The grip and oversteer/understeer change is just too sudden and not enough progressive. Only way to play with the oversteer in this game has been keeping the wheel straight when you have the ends bit loose and control the back with the gas. There should be some wheel movement also involved but the isn't.

///I'll take bit words back from the handling. Many of the issues that I mentioned aren't present on every car or in every track. It depends. American Muscle 1 and Sandpit 1 for example behaves just like in the Build #6. Europe Fiat and Tarmac (and maybe other surfaces also) is just weird

Also are the vehicles lacking some power? I think some of them have power but then suddenly it just is eaten somehow in the physics world.
/// Seems like the default field of view was very low so blame partially that

Rolling over and weight:
This is what I'd call too big step in the right direction, need to step back a bit. I want to get the Jokkis feeling that going too much sideways in a corner and having a small physical bump happening and you'll roll over, or shortcutting too much to a bump even a curb if it's right angled and you'll roll over again. I think it happens bit too often now. I guess the cars are light weight because when they roll over and hit something, you'll fly really far. Also some cars feel like their weight is on the sides or on the roof.

Damage:
Well small objects deform the car like crazy. Cones twist your car and drops your wipers :D Though I feel that the damage and deform are better tied togehter now.

Force Feedback:
I needed to tone this down a lot, not because it was heavy but because it was very bad and confusing. Is it taking the feedback from the driving physics and that's why it feels bad because the driving isn't enough good? Or is the force feedback just badly implemented now? There's no centering and the wheel doesn't want to push it self against the drift or spin. It's just there. When I start to turn right there's some natural force but then suddenly there's empty force for 0.2s and then the force is there again and the same happens when I start to turn the wheel in the opposite direction, force, no force, focre. It's like the front wheels gets in the air for that 0.2s always and then gets on the ground again.
Then bumps and crashes aren't felt much. Can't get much feeling of from the road.

Graphics (mostly lighting and tone map):
Lets just say these are heavily wip. But I've to say about the partices that they look too sprity sometimes. I mean that I see that d cloud there for too long so I actually see how bad it looks by itself.

Options:
Take a hint how Arma 3 has done their options settings. No word twisting so every setting is what it says, many settings are separated from each other so no single post-process effect is under any other setting or anything like that, sliders have number boxes so you can also write the value, sliders are only used for values and not for quality settings like x4, x8, x16, Ultra, High etc. The options in Arma 3 are very deep but user-friendly at the same time because they're simple. Take the same for controls/wheel tuning.
- Give Gamma and Brightness settings in the video options.
- More force feedback settings
- Maybe some rFactor (2) style visible diagrams how the sensitivity setting effects input for easy understanding

Multiplayer:
Just good steps here. Keep up the good work! Things are performing great, filters are in, dedicated servers, server options... I like this.
 

acid_andy

Member
Just wanted to say very well done Bugbear for getting this build out at last!

I like the new handling. I think the way the tyres and suspension reacts certainly feels more realistic.

I adore the new Euro car - clearly reminiscent of the classic Escort! I will say though it seems to reach critical damage MUCH too quickly - like within the first couple of turns when racing against the bots if I don't hang back (Edit: That was on the gravel track. The new oval is so wide, it's less of an issue - but I like the tightness of the gravel track.)

I can see as others have said that some of the texture details and colours could do with livening up to match the beauty of the last build - but I get that with a new engine some stuff needs to be redone.

The visual damage seems good to me. I'm not keen on seeing wheels hanging in space with nothing attached to them but I'm sure this is a known issue.

I'm excited and can't wait to see what you're working on next. Ignore the whiners - a lot of these dudes will always find something to criticise!
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Purple44 said:
Hati Hroovitnisson said:
Overall feel

Things are feeling more organic now, but oddly the handling has become more arcade-y than before. They say it’s become more boring… sort of. It’s because things aren’t yet tuned properly. Cars are too fragile in small impacts meaning that I am reluctant to make body contact. But high speed impacts don’t seem to be much more risky. Meaning there isn’t much of the side by side shunting and ramming that made things hectic. Handling is too easy, meaning that it’s not really all that thrilling to go fast. The “seat of your pants, edge of the car’s abilities” feeling has disappeared. Patch 7 IS a positive thing, but patch 8 needs to get the tuning right.

Thanks Hati for your thoughtful post. I be curious what controller and what assists you are using?

I'm using a DFGT wheel, auto tranny and no assists and I would say the handling has become more simy compare to Build #6. I now have to brake earlier before a turn and have to get off the brake before I start turning, or car don't want to turn. Wreckfest used to act like this back when you could change the brake bias and swap to race or dirt tires in earlier Builds. For me, the handle has not gotten easier. But I'm OK with that if a can now figure out to get the cars to stop going to wide sometimes even thru I slowed car down for turn and I'm off the brake.

Is it me and my advance wheel settings that still need tweaking or when we get to pick the right tires for the track surface, I will have better control the car?

I hear there a new hotfix, time go give it a try. :)

PS to all posters, I think it be helpful to Bugbear when you are posting about how you feel about the handling in Build #7, you also say what controller you are using and if using any assists and if using auto or manual tranny.
I found my problem with the cars going wide in the turns sometimes. I had forgot to change my steering degree rotation back 240 after playing Carmageddon: Reincarnation where I use 330 to make C:R "playable" with a wheel.

So my bad. :-[

But the good news is after testing gravel and tarmac tracks with 240 degree rotation, I can make the turns now if I slow down enough for the turns. I can say I'm happy enough with the handle of the Mus 2 car I just tested with. I can see the car tilt a bit if I get sideway on the track and you can feel that one bump on the tarmac track. So handling wise I think Bugbear on the right track. The handling a little more of a challenge now with assists off, but with some practice I think I can tame them. :)

But online, after we get the lag issue solved, I think will will need a host option that turns all assists off ( like we had in GRID 1 ) to make the race fair for players using no assists. It not going be a fair race if assists players can go into a turn hard and not have to slow down much and us no assists players are having to get on the brake before turning.

Also to have bumper to bumper racing online, players that know the track will no what turns need braking for. But if us no assists players have to brake for some turns and that assists player on my bumper does not, I'm label to get rearended because player did not expect me to brake since he usually does not brake for this turn.

Back to testing Build #7, have to give the new cars a go, now I can steer. :)


Edit: On tarmac track just turning my wheel just a little bit can get the tires to start sliding a little, when we get racing tires for the asphalt tracks, will the cars have a little better grip? I would think slight turns in the tracks should not cause a racing car to loose grip with the road.

Edit2: I have seen posts of players that are unhappy with the new graphics. But I just watch a replay video of a tarmac track with 23 AI and the replay video look pretty good to me. With max graphic settings except no MSAA, 1280x960 and a i5 2500 and Nvidia 660, I got mid 30s at start of race, after cars have spread out, got 40-60 FPS. That good enough FPS wise for me. :)

So far only crash 64bit version once since download yesterday. If you don't count the Atb-Tab crashes, which new hotfix did not fix.
 

Dela

Member
Weeked Smasher
Seems like i'm not alone with my performance issues. Radeon users all over internet are complaining about poor performance even with higher end amd cards (290x). Frame freezing and bad fps.
 

LukeDude759

Member
Weeked Smasher
You know, I was just about to practice with my newly acquired Huntsman in TF2, but then I found this in my Steam downloads list:



I don't understand how I let this go by unnoticed for over a whole day.
 

RagingRoach67

Member
Master Blaster
AutoAssassin11 said:
Idk...where would I find that? Sorry if that's a stupid question haha
It might be slightly different depending on how you view your games in Steam. So...first go to the View option at the top left in Steam and select the "Games Details" view. You should now have a nice listing of all your games. Now find Wreckfest, right click it and select Properties. Then go to the Updates tab and check your Automatic Update settings. It should be set to "Always keep this game up to date" (this is the default setting). That will ensure you get the latest patches for Wreckfest when you restart Steam. (now try that!)

If it still fails, check your download server. Again under the View option, select Settings. Choose Download on the left and try another Download Region. Then restart Steam again and see what happens.

If it still won't download, verify the game cache. Again right click the game, select Properties. On the Local Files tab, click the "Verify Integrity of Game Cache". That will make sure you are using the same files that Steam has. If it finds any differences, it will download the updated files. I am not 100% sure if this will trigger the update to be downloaded, or if you need to restart Steam once more after. Either way, try both options and let me know how it goes!
 
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