Update #5 2014-07-03

Jori Virtanen

Automatic weapons and boundless love.
Kamikave said:
Ok, let's get things strait.
I haven't played the game in a long time, but I remember that somewhere along the way you said that controls had to be rebinded. And I did. Then came another update, but this time you didn't say anything about a controls reset. I'm getting tired of rebinding my keyboard everytime.
Yeah, we'll fix that, for sure. That's annoying as hell. Pisses us off, too :p
(So yeah, it's a bug, not a feature ;) )
 

FalconXY

Member
Tapio Vierros said:
Shivaxi said:
Perhaps add a points feature for taking out cars or spinning them out / damaging them like in the original Destruction Derby too? I mean in the races too, not just the derby bowls of course. Just an idea. Keep up the awesome work guys!
We kind of have it something similar already, the points are just not displayed anywhere yet, but you should see small messages on top of the HUD damage indicator when you e.g. hit a good T-bone.
Hello Tapio,
I would like to have a points race type too.
Please take a look at my post here in the "Score based racing" thread. Thank you.

http://community.bugbeargames.com/index.php/topic,936.msg9654.html#msg9654

Cheers,
Jens
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
hande11 said:
TURST67 said:
I hope that we will get the handling (re-re-re-re)fixed again ! Because I want to play so bad, but I really can't stand the steering, especially after having so much fun with the previous steering, when it was possible to do long drifts and keep the car on the trajectory, without spining or going out of the track.
Since you mentioned drifting.. i was very negative with keyboard play first in latest build in every aspect, but found out from other forum members advice that switching big block engine to American car with Rally suspension was quite nice while doing drifting style of driving in Gravel track. Ok with Sandpit too. Had Stability aid either half or full. Then driving using throttle sparingly on spin danger zones (excluding "powerslide" compatible turns). Just a small hint to try, if you by any chance did not yet try that combination for drifting style of driving (although maybe you tried that setup already too..) In tarmac one can try the same setup, but using Race suspension (not so happy yet with tarmac driving in general here..).
(BB will re-adjust driving physics for sure and good to bring here on forum any positive and negative findings / opinions with as much details as possible.)
As someone explained it, i'm missing the transition between understeer/normal/oversteer too. Its not really possible to correct you slide, you can drift, but as you cross a certain point, you will spin out.
 

TURST67

Member
Iwasawa said:
hande11 said:
TURST67 said:
I hope that we will get the handling (re-re-re-re)fixed again ! Because I want to play so bad, but I really can't stand the steering, especially after having so much fun with the previous steering, when it was possible to do long drifts and keep the car on the trajectory, without spining or going out of the track.
Since you mentioned drifting.. i was very negative with keyboard play first in latest build in every aspect, but found out from other forum members advice that switching big block engine to American car with Rally suspension was quite nice while doing drifting style of driving in Gravel track. Ok with Sandpit too. Had Stability aid either half or full. Then driving using throttle sparingly on spin danger zones (excluding "powerslide" compatible turns). Just a small hint to try, if you by any chance did not yet try that combination for drifting style of driving (although maybe you tried that setup already too..) In tarmac one can try the same setup, but using Race suspension (not so happy yet with tarmac driving in general here..).
(BB will re-adjust driving physics for sure and good to bring here on forum any positive and negative findings / opinions with as much details as possible.)
As someone explained it, i'm missing the transition between understeer/normal/oversteer too. Its not really possible to correct you slide, you can drift, but as you cross a certain point, you will spin out.
Exactly, if you start drifting, it's over in almost any case. And I forgot to say that I was doing all this without any driving help, and manual shifting.
 

HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
what, are u kidding with me, drifting is so easy in the game, ofcourse if u just pedal to the metal, the car will spin off. But i think its a blast drifting and no problem at all, go wide and long.
However, these days gamers wants everything on silver plates, almost no one want a game to be difficult, so maybe this is the case for y'all.

I drive with keyboard, automatic and manual shifting, with no assists and have no problem at all drifting around in low or high speed, its a blast doing it with the muscle cars. Even with the european car, pretty easy. But it requires alot of tapping the keys, letting of the gas and stop steering at the right time.
Dont matter if its tarmac or gravel, its a blast, and the steering is perfect for the cars. However, if u dont have locked differential, it will become alot more problematic. and the cars have a little bit different handlings, and if u crash to much, it will result in even harder situations.

But if u cant handle the car, try going down on engine power and up the abs..

edit: have no trouble correcting my slides either. guess u r just newbs at keyboard driving. ;)
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
Great it works for you! :)

But don't forget, people drive with many different inputs (coontrollers, wheels) and it has to be good with all of them.

I use a 360 pad and don't like the handling as it is. And most others here agree, that work needs to be done on the handling...

I don't want easy handling. It has to be a challenge with no assists. But atm its frustrating in many situations. And thats not good ;)
 

TURST67

Member
HYLK said:
what, are u kidding with me, drifting is so easy in the game, ofcourse if u just pedal to the metal, the car will spin off. But i think its a blast drifting and no problem at all, go wide and long.
However, these days gamers wants everything on silver plates, almost no one want a game to be difficult, so maybe this is the case for y'all.

I drive with keyboard, automatic and manual shifting, with no assists and have no problem at all drifting around in low or high speed, its a blast doing it with the muscle cars. Even with the european car, pretty easy. But it requires alot of tapping the keys, letting of the gas and stop steering at the right time.
Dont matter if its tarmac or gravel, its a blast, and the steering is perfect for the cars. However, if u dont have locked differential, it will become alot more problematic. and the cars have a little bit different handlings, and if u crash to much, it will result in even harder situations.

But if u cant handle the car, try going down on engine power and up the abs..

edit: have no trouble correcting my slides either. guess u r just newbs at keyboard driving. ;)
Yay, you're the best ! Congratulation for beign an awesome gamer, we all suck because we never touched a racing game !
 

Tug

Member
Team Bugbear Member
As much as I think it's awesome that this thread has taken a turn towards sarcastic jabs, I'd like to bring it back on track and say that I too thoroughly enjoy the controls as they are. I have tried with my keyboard and my razer hydra, and can adapt to both quite easily with the current control scheme. It does take practice, as it feels quite different from an arcade racer like Grid, but I believe that any adjustments made at this point should be quite minute.

My main problem lies within car roll over physics, and the awkward low damage at high speed, and high damage at low speed.
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
Tug said:
My main problem lies within car roll over physics, and the awkward low damage at high speed, and high damage at low speed.
Im totally agree, there is no real sense of speed when you hit something, feels like your car damages the same after a certain speed. About the rollover i think the cars tires actually have really low adhesion i drift in gravel like on ice. But also i still think the cars roll over a bit too hard, especially the european one.
 

HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
Tug: I agree to that aswell, as same as driving into obstacles, like poles, rocks, trees, and the rails, makes the car not even take a scratch. However, if u get a car on to u, ur car gets crushed like its in the crusher. Very irritating aswell..

Lari Fari: Yes different controllers, however they said keyboard. But then again, tested with controller at a friends place. And it felt alot more stable than with keyboard.

All of u: Its mankinds way and will always be, to make everything easier and not try to improve themselves, but to make everything around them work for them. If a game is to hard, some will complain over it. If u cant drift as u want to, they will complain. Cos if they cant make cool drifts and put their driving skills on youtube. Whats the point of driving. Sarcastic or not. Y should everything be so easy?
Im not the best car game driver out there. But it might just be me who wants this game to be hard, cos all of the other Flatout games, has been to easy. No really challenge in the races, won easily and drives like a pro without really doing anything. I want a challenge in the game, meaning good AI's and realistic handling. As BB said in the sneak peak film, "when u crash into something in the game, its feels like a crash"..
 
H

hande11

Guest
Lari Fari said:
I don't want easy handling. It has to be a challenge with no assists.
There are as many opinions and driving styles as drivers i bet! But as Lari wrote above, majority of NCG fans agree too on this: we don't want easy handling (but still revised on some areas / with some controller setups / still more configurable)
(On assits, i see them also as "different driving models" for different contollers and driving styles, not just only "level of difficulty", one should avoid at all costs. It's a great thing users can configure driving feel. Wish BB will create us few of great driving profiles, easy, challenging, hard-code to begin with.. and then CUSTOM, in which user can configure many nuances of thingies that affect to driving feel, giving a game longetivity it deserves)

Was having a drive with one of my all-time old favourite, Flatout Ultimate Carnage yesterday, and now do i realised (after playing NCG), that driving model / physics in Flatout Ultimate Carnage is so simple, very "low-fidelity" and in the end, so boring (nice game otherwise). All attempts to make high-fidelity, more realistic, configurable, in a good way challenging driving experience, in NCG is welcomed, i think all agree. Already now, FOUC and NCG are like night and day what comes to driving model, and that's a good direction in that area (but still lot of to be improved to get to the goal) :) Good thing to patiently push detailed feedback to BB on positive + negative aspects of driving model (oh boy, i have equal amount of praises and "complaints" myself too) and respect everyone's opinions too.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
HYLK said:
Tug: I agree to that aswell, as same as driving into obstacles, like poles, rocks, trees, and the rails, makes the car not even take a scratch. However, if u get a car on to u, ur car gets crushed like its in the crusher. Very irritating aswell..

Lari Fari: Yes different controllers, however they said keyboard. But then again, tested with controller at a friends place. And it felt alot more stable than with keyboard.

All of u: Its mankinds way and will always be, to make everything easier and not try to improve themselves, but to make everything around them work for them. If a game is to hard, some will complain over it. If u cant drift as u want to, they will complain. Cos if they cant make cool drifts and put their driving skills on youtube. Whats the point of driving. Sarcastic or not. Y should everything be so easy?
Im not the best car game driver out there. But it might just be me who wants this game to be hard, cos all of the other Flatout games, has been to easy. No really challenge in the races, won easily and drives like a pro without really doing anything. I want a challenge in the game, meaning good AI's and realistic handling. As BB said in the sneak peak film, "when u crash into something in the game, its feels like a crash"..
Flatout 1 was easy?
 

TURST67

Member
I don't want an easy handling either, but it should still be fun to play with. It was very fun on the various previous updates, but it's not anymore with the actual gameplay and physics.
I had Flatout 1, 2, UC, Flatout on psp, even older games like the very first Need for Speed, Driver, the first Wipeout, rally championship, Carmageddon 1 & 2, Sports Cars GT, and a ton of other racing games, so don't call me a kid who wants easy games.
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
HYLK said:
All of u: Its mankinds way and will always be, to make everything easier and not try to improve themselves, but to make everything around them work for them. If a game is to hard, some will complain over it. If u cant drift as u want to, they will complain. Cos if they cant make cool drifts and put their driving skills on youtube. Whats the point of driving. Sarcastic or not. Y should everything be so easy?
But, please see the difference between unrealistic driving model and hard driving model. I like when something is challenging too, but actually NCG-s handling is more like annoying and unrealistic than challenging.
 

Needles Kane

Member
Weeked Smasher
Iwasawa said:
But, please see the difference between unrealistic driving model and hard driving model. I like when something is challenging too, but actually NCG-s handling is more like annoying and unrealistic than challenging.
I agree. First build's driving model was challenging but not frustrating. After engine overhaul driving physics were broken. I still can win, I can maybe more easily win but it's not fun. It just feels weird

Good example about unrealistic driving model is Flatout 5. It's hard, it's so damn hard. Impossible with some cars. But nobody can deny that it's unrealistic. I still can master it but it's broken.
 

Ryno917

Member
Full time wrecker
HYLK said:
Lari Fari: Yes different controllers, however they said keyboard. But then again, tested with controller at a friends place. And it felt alot more stable than with keyboard.

All of u: Its mankinds way and will always be, to make everything easier and not try to improve themselves, but to make everything around them work for them. If a game is to hard, some will complain over it. If u cant drift as u want to, they will complain. Cos if they cant make cool drifts and put their driving skills on youtube. Whats the point of driving. Sarcastic or not. Y should everything be so easy?
Im not the best car game driver out there. But it might just be me who wants this game to be hard, cos all of the other Flatout games, has been to easy. No really challenge in the races, won easily and drives like a pro without really doing anything. I want a challenge in the game, meaning good AI's and realistic handling. As BB said in the sneak peak film, "when u crash into something in the game, its feels like a crash"..
I've been playing racing sims as long as there has been racing sims, and I've been on racing tracks. I know how to control a car. The problem isn't whether or not the game is hard, the problem is the actual characteristics. Playing on a keyboard you won't be able to understand the 'feel' points that I was making, as that is all to do with the FFB through the steering wheel, but the underlying physics issues should still be apparent to you. The physics are not right, it's not a matter of being able to slide the car or not, it's a question of how you slide the car and what it does. Currently it's not realistic, which just makes it annoying.

I can still win most of the races I try. I'm not complaining about difficulty level (in fact, aside from the noted problems with the AI being Jedis when saving the car, I find the AI too easy at times).
 

HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
Sorry guys, i just hear the same thing over and over. Whats so frustrating over it, its still a game, and u cant get the same feel as driving a car on race day or at the streets. Of the simple reason, its a game, were u dont have laws to follow, like u have in real life. So explain what it is that makes it frustrating? Just saying it, wont give the devs any help at all.

I've also have been playing racing games since a was a little boy, and it all started with Lotus on amiga for me. And no car or racing game has been difficult so far. Need for speed easy, flatout 1 easy, flatout 2 and UC (the same game, just a couple of more cars and prettier graphics) easy.
So yes, AI to easy, but its hard for the developers to make different characters in a game, and how they will perform.

And me, well i want nothing more than a realistic game from this one, that makes u scared how hard it is. All the other flatout series, has been to easy to complete, no problem winning races, and make it to the top. Easy also getting parts and make ur car upgraded to the max.
But Ryno917; what kind of cars have u been racing?
 

BeaSTWiTHiN

New Member
Master Blaster
I used to enjoy this game a lot, and now I can't even talk and play. It's changed a bit too much and it's tough bringing it back. We can all say we're fine, we love keyboard, or I can still win (puff out chest) but is it fun? Is it enjoyable? Does it leave you wanting more?

Not really for me, and I'm fairly invested in the game. It was my debut episode for a new youtube series, it is a highly anticipated game for me. But I can't touch it with a 10 foot pole. It needs work.
 

sam223

Active Member
Weeked Smasher
Incar footage on slightly damp pitted concrete,RWD mk1 granada coupe.Inspiration for devs.


Watch the steering wheel,tarmac should feel like this with a bit more grip instead of what we have now
 

St. Jimmy

Finland
Full time wrecker
sam223 said:
Incar footage on slightly damp pitted concrete,RWD mk1 granada coupe.Inspiration for devs.


Watch the steering wheel,tarmac should feel like this with a bit more grip instead of what we have now
In NCG if you would try to correct like that the sliding the car would take a grip and you would be on the outside wall. Especially with the European car that's a huge issue.
 
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