Week #17 Report

T

Team Bugbear

Guest
Hello again!

This week’s blog is an unconventional one, as we’re not as much talking about what we’re up to as much as we are inviting you to be a part of our decision making process.

To be more specific, we’re unsure what to do with the demolition derby aspect of the game. We feel it's not getting the love that Wreckfest's racing is getting. The physics modeling and the detail we’re putting into the various upgrade parts are top notch, and with that kind of depth, we could pave way for a more simulationistic approach – realistic car handling, terrain behavior and physics modeling would definitely all allow us to create a demolition racing where the emphasis is on the word “racing”. In effect, that would mean that trading paint would not be as important as driving clean would be, even if dangerous driving and the inevitable crashes would clearly be a big part of the game.

However, we don’t want to make a pure simulator. We do want Wreckfest to have that depth that realistic physics will give us, there’s no question of that, but we don’t want to wade too deep into those waters. This leaves us kind of in a lurch – we’re making a game where crashes look and feel good, but they inevitably cause you to fall further from the lead, which is not always the desired effect. We see this becoming a problem when we’re designing and creating content: tracks and routes are invariably more fun when we’re focusing on full on racing and not full contact banger racing. Plain demolition derby arenas, on the other hand, get boring after a while, because there’s not enough to see and do.

So, we’re currently hunting for ways to perk up the ”banger” part of the races. So far we've come up with a score modeling system where you gain points from collisions as well as being a fast driver, but we’re unsure if that would be enough. We’re wondering if we should broaden the “demolition racing” section of the game towards becoming a category of its own, which would, in effect, create two main branches of hitting the road: the other branch is aimed for clean racing and the other is for dirty driving.

However, we are not yet set on this, as it is a problematic road, even if it could be fruitful in the end. Do we create tracks that work on one branch but not the other, like straight stretches of road where you have to gun for the other end, quickly turn around, and head back, and weave amidst your rivals that are behind you? These would be pretty boring, if not downright annoying when playing clean – tracks that aim for maximum chaos become painful to drive if you’re trying to avoid damage. On the other hand, tracks that are designed to be all about speed are simply frustrating when driving a slower moving vehicle designed for ramming. This would leave us with tracks that take a lot of work to complete that would be fun with only one of the main two play styles, if not outright restricted to just that one branch.

Nonetheless, we want to pose a question to you all: what would you like to see? Would you like to see a game where we have both clean racing and dirty racing treated equally? How would you create a new track? To suit both styles of play, or just the other? What style of track would your dream track be, and what kind of game modes would you like to see on that track? (Provided they’re realistic – we’re not making CTF on top of a skyscraper with exploding bomb cars no matter how much you want that to happen ;) )

Feel free to give us references, if e.g. you have fond memories of a game where a certain map worked especially well with one specific game mode.

As a disclaimer: this kind of blog doesn’t mean we’re deadlocked with the game! It means we’re giving you an opportunity to tell us what you would like to see in the game, and let that influence what we’re doing. Help us design Wreckfest to be all it can be :)


That’s it for today!
And, as always, stay safe all y’all.

-Team Bugbear
 

Lari Fari

Gaming Since 1989
IMO

You would have to include both styles of racing. There need to be two different sets of rules to encourage the differetn playstyles and reward in being good at them.

Both race types should be playable in one career and will and should lead to people building different cars each specifically modified to suit a certain mode.

Of course some tracks are better for certain playstyles. But let the players decide. If someone opens a server and hosts a clean race on a crazy track, its likely noone will join and the market will have spoken ;-)
 
You should try to treat both options fairly. BB has a split fan base with this game so why would you try to isolate one side it wouldn't be fair.
Map design is where you can get creative. Look at your design behind Sandpit 1 Route 1. It's high speed and has very dangerous corners where drivers can be shoved into obstacles (if your into that type of racing).
From my side as driver who tries to race clean a track like this can work provided there is no room for cuts to be taken and areas for racing side by side. Many times I've had massive crashes from pushing as hard as I can.
Another alternative I can see is split route tracks, areas where you re-join can cause big crashes particularly if said areas are blind to either routes entry's.

I don't play Derby but a friend of mine recently purchased the game but he feels derby is lacking something. I don't know if he meant physics wise (I know you guys are flat-out there!) or the map. But at the end of the day you guys are making a game that supposed to be fun, so why not mix up derby's with something different like a multiple tier map, maybe 2-3 stories high, where you can access each level and the ground? You can always take it out if it doesn't work.

Or ask the modders among the community to get creative!

People always like new content, and great tracks always stay in drivers memory
 

Deggis

New Member
we’re making a game where crashes look and feel good, but they inevitably cause you to fall further from the lead
What about bringing back nitro from previous Flatouts? 8)

For tracks I would like to see some of those from FO1, where there is a clean route, but also a short cut(s), which may be littered with obstacles. Those obviously would be difficult to drive with a car that is light but fast, compared to a heavier car. Tracks that have different sections suitable for different type of cars and driving styles make the car and tuning decisions more fun, as none of the cars would be superior on every section. I'd also like to see those tracks that go through a village and may have tight hairpins or 90 degree corners. Puddles of water/oil etc on the track, or leaking from cars could also be interesting.

Demolition derby is good to keep but needs more informative damage display at least. It's a good alternative in tournaments to have with racing. Maybe some stunt driving or obstacle course would also work when competing with friends.
 

conso1727

From Italy
Full time wrecker
The Destruction Derby games had the Wrecking Racing mode, with scoring programmed this way (at least in the first)

-2 Points for spinning an opponent 90°
-4 Points for spinning an opponent 180°
-10 Points for spinning an opponent a full 360°, or disabling an opponent's car
The 1st, 2nd and 3rd to get to the end were awarded 10, 6 and 4 points

I suppose that with little tweaking, it can be used for Wreckfest as well. I don't recall though which are the possible type of hits in Wreckfest, I am sure they are not the same of Flatout.
 

UsF

Member
Team Bugbear Member
I would probably like to have the following options:
1. one life or or multiple lives, allowing for a realistic match or endless match, until a defined number of lives or a time limit runs out
2. Takedown/Lap based or score based (where winning/getting takedowns give you extra, but not the most score)
3. Reset enabled (with or without with restrictions?) or reset disabled

These apply to racing and derbies.

For the scoring, I would love a very detailed scoring system, something that takes into account the amount you rotate an enemy by crashing into them for example, if you manage to roll them, flip them, spin them. Imagine getting 5 points for making a car rotate 90 degrees, 15 points for making it do a 180 and 40 points if you manage a full 360. Then you'd be able to get a certain amount of score from flipping people, making them roll over, gaining more and more points the more they roll. Bonus points for making someone land on their roof.

I would love this scoring system be implemented, even into the racing modes, to allow for more diversity rather than just either win or get a lot of takedowns. Making your opponent do an awesome crash rather than taking them out as effective as possible can be very satisfying. Think of the times you pushed someone just as you drove over a ramp. It wasn't to take them out, but to make them flip wildly. :D
 
Well the problem you have is what people want.

Some players want to win. They want to be the fastest, they want to beat everyone else. They don't want to crash and actively avoid it (the racers)
Some people want to smash. They like the spectacular crashes, and gives alternative entertainment because maybe they're not fast enough to win most races (the smashers).

These are both equally reasonable approaches. At the moment it's created a separation in the game. Anyone who can bring these two parties together is a genius.

First of all the smashers. Excluding the derby cages, they will levitate towards the ovals. This is because there's plenty going on, even if they fall behind. The complaint the smashers have about the road courses is when they fall behind they don't see anyone for 3 laps and get bored. That's a reason why lapped cars will have a punt at the leader. They're not mean, they just want some entertainment.

Now you're always going to get the extremes and there's no point targeting them. The extreme racers will only race in clean lobbies and the extreme smashers will only race in the cage or the oval.

So you target the inbetweeners, which is probably the majority anyway. Going right from the smasher end of the scale "I'll race but I'll race dirty and I'll avoid any tracks where I get left behind' to the racer end 'I want to be fast and I like to win but I don't mind getting into a bit of argy bargy'.

The trick here is to introduce acceptable, not too outlandish ways of keeping the racing close. So, stuff you already have, or have on the way

- the oval figure 8 - keeps everyone close and has that wonderful element of randomness - the crossover - that can turn a race on its head at any point
- Class and car restrictions in lobbies - a lobby with only European Coupes is going to be much closer because the cars are easier to drive

Some other things you could consider
- reverse grids - if you finish last in one race you're first in the next - may encourage people who are at the back to stick around and not quit as they'll be up at the front in the next race
- more shortish easy tracks with crossover points to facilitate close racing with the potential for random reshuffles
- debris on the racing line - as shunts happen and they produce debris, make the probability that it will sit on the racing line high. The racers will come into a corner at high speed and on the racing line. When parts of the wall fall off on the last turn on Sandpit for instance, it can catch the leaders out and cause an almighty shunt at the front, allowing others to catch up.
- As you work on physics make hitting debris have more of an affect - hitting a tyre might just put a car airborne long enough to take it off track, for example - like a single seater hitting a raised kerb just a bit too hard
- punctures and pitstops

Maybe others will have better ideas than me but the key points for me are
- the smashers don't want to race on an empty racetrack. They want to see other cars to interact with
- deliberately handicapping leaders is not an option but they are more likely to be affected by debris on the racing line than others
- short, easy to remember, easy to drive tracks with the potential for random events like crossovers (or two bits of track where overspill is possible - perhaps a little more subtle than sanpit 1 route 1 - say separated by a penetrable barrier
- lock lobbies to specific car class and make so the best players are not always in the fastest cars
- find a way of encouraging hosts to cycle through all tracks rather than pick their own - (if there's prize money, maybe you win more if you won it on a server that has preset track, car and class cycles than on one where the host just runs gravel all night because they like it)

Enough from me I could go on all day.
 

juggermalt

New Member
Weeked Smasher
Personally I am for having two paths. The ability to split these two styles of racing means that no one would be alienated. I personally am more for the clean racing style of branch, but by including a "dirty" style of racing you could include things such as trailer races or suicide races without the "too arcade" screams surfacing. Which would also make me more inclined to part take in the derby aspect of the game a little more.

As for tracks, if this route was taken, maybe make one more route/area at each location that is made for these styles of races. It could even just be a big cleared out section where there are tires placed around for different events?
 

longtimeago

"When in doubt, flat out" - Colin McRae
Both need to be catered to, but you can not split them both to 'seperate games'. I would like to be able to make a banger car outfitted and armored to take a punch if I have to sacrifice handling and/or top speed and would like to make a racing car capable of fast cornering and top speed that can be dead with just a few hits to the engine. Both need to be sitting next to eachother in my garage with equal amounts of love to both.

In normal racing you should get awarded for clean racing and straight up smashing/taking out people. People can set up their own servers if they feel the need to only do clean racing if desired.

For derby you could do a 'betting' pre-match that would allow you to pick the car that you would think would win or land in a top spot, maybe even yourself if you feel confident, this would give you the 'edge' of smacking all other cars that come close to the guy you are betting on. If you did a bet correctly you get a small % of extra cash. Or something like that.

You can also do a "rival" mode, keeping the stats of players that have defeated you in multiplayer would give extra money if you win from them in the next race OR if you take them out or something.
But all this will give Jori hours and hours of headaches and overtime of balancing and making it so that it will not be exploited. :p
 
Does the engine support elevated crossovers? Like Suzuka where part of the track is a bridge over another part?

You could have a tricky corner leading onto the raised bit of bridge with some very flimsy crash barrier creating the potential for cars falling off the bridge into the path of other cars below. That would be fun.
 

acid_andy

Member
Team Bugbear said:
we’re making a game where crashes look and feel good, but they inevitably cause you to fall further from the lead, which is not always the desired effect. We see this becoming a problem when we’re designing and creating content: tracks and routes are invariably more fun when we’re focusing on full on racing and not full contact banger racing. Plain demolition derby arenas, on the other hand, get boring after a while, because there’s not enough to see and do.
No offence but I personally think you're massively overthinking and exaggerating this issue.

Falling further from the lead is frustrating if you just want to race 100% clean, sure, but that's not really the true spirit of banger racing. With a 24 car grid banger race, it's not always about coming first, just getting into say the top 6 especially after a crash can be very rewarding. When someone can choose big amounts of laps a comeback is more realistic.

But the bottom line is that I agree with others. You need to allow for both player preferences. So have some highly banger orientated tracks (a short dirt oval, PLEASE) and some that are focused on cleaner racing. But it should definitely still be allowed to do either type of race on any track. I strongly disagree with the idea of a two branch game as this will greatly limit the player options and freedom and available tracks.

I mean, the tracks you've already provided are fantastic for both kinds of racing. I generally prefer single player and sometimes it's fun trying to race 95% clean, try to win, with only the occasional nudge into the bots. Other times an all out wreckfest is more fun. And please don't screw with the pure derbies too much. They're really a playground for people who adore the damage. Look back to Flatout 2 - the derbies were perfect in that.

I agree with the push for realism and I dislike noticable rubber banding and nitrous. But with realism people are gonna have to accept that if you crash a lot, you likely won't come 1st - but you can still have fun. I agree a way to reward that via scoring will work well. If you really ramp up the financial awards for hitting other cars - like the Mad Dog and Heavy Hitter ones you already have, then I don't see an issue really.

Uhh, this has turned into a long post but I really hope it helps.

I don't personally think there's anything fundamentally wrong with the game design (or track designs) of the current release. I love it in fact. Lots more of the same plus repairs, upgrades and a career mode and you're on to a winner. The number of people who sit here grumbling shows how much people like this game. If they didn't like it your forums would be empty by now.
 

Wolverine1

New Member
A game mode I would like to see would be a team-based racing mode where one team is running the track in one direction, and the other team is running the track in the opposite direction. You would probably offer points for both high finishes and takedowns. Since lap times can be slower in one direction than the other, the game mode would be balanced by racing in two "heat" races to determine the team that wins. So after one of the races the teams swap directions. This would work particularly well on the oval and figure 8 tracks because lap times are equal in either direction. Perhaps a few road courses with very similar layouts both forwards and backwards would help the game mode out as well.
 
Me again.

Road blockages I think are the answer. You get them on the oval, when lots of cars are totalled and on fire - you come around a corner and there's nowhere to go.

You need to be able to recreate that on road courses without having to take out half the field to do it. So it has to be environmental. Damage to the environment caused by players, sitting on the track waiting to be collected. So it's about making all your debris - collapsed signs, fences, tyre walls, whatever it is, more obstructive on the racetrack. You need random elements to throw the leaders off their game but, like I said before, you can't deliberately target and handicap them. That would be Mario Kart and we don't want that.
 

Vesely Zub

New Member
Team Bugbear said:
... What style of track would your dream track be, and what kind of game modes would you like to see on that track? (Provided they’re realistic – we’re not making CTF on top of a skyscraper with exploding bomb cars no matter how much you want that to happen ;) )
...
I would like see forest tracks, winter (snow) tracks and village tracks with country - offroad and asphalt track in one from Flatout 1. For all these racing tracks will be Hold the Flag - One car have flag and other need catch him for get flag. Player with flag can drive on road or out of road, if it will be open as Flatout 1 and try keep the flag long as possible.
For CTF mode are good open tracks like desert, country with hills and few trees, old factory and I think good inspiration is Crashday.
This is my favorite track for CTF from Crashday

For demolition derby, maybe saome winter area like frozen lake.

And I would like tracks where is mix of some areas and dangerous track areas. For example - winter and forest, where road out of forest will be snow and ice and inside forest mud and asphalt and some dangerous area like frozen curve.
 

C2S

Member
Good posts, presuming ed.

It's true that the longer tracks can get a bit boring for a smasher in the last positions, if it takes ages to get to the striking distance. Even if everyone in the race is a smasher but equally fast, they'll just spend lap after lap trying to catch the next guy.

Giving the debris a bigger role could be worth a shot. Additionally, you could try experimenting with new kind of props at the sides of the track, which, when hit, burst into a pile of debris or otherwise litter a part of the track with obstacles. For example: pile of logs that roll into the track, a breakable winch holding a large crate full of stuff over the track, mostly round boulders that can be pushed and roll down on the track, etc. These shouldn't be placed too close to the optimal racing line, so that it takes a bit of time and intent to hit them. The race leader could invest a bit of time to try to hamper everyone behind, or those in the last positions might decide to focus on breaking as many of them as possible. Of course, it would take careful balancing to ensure this ends up a fun and random element, rather than an annoyance that slows everything down.

As for the racing vs smashing and points/cash/xp gained. Like mentioned above, you could just work on balancing the "mad dog", "heavy hitter", and "speeder" rewards and maybe add a new one or two. Or perhaps have a cash award based on total damage caused in the race. Optionally, this could be multiplied by a factor based on your finished position, which could balance out things to some extent.
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
In my opinion, and videogame experience(i did mapping a lot in MTA btw.), well... I hope for both styles. BUT.
IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!.
Choices.... Honestly, i never understood why are there only one BEST parts for vehicles. In my opinion, there should be things like this:
You could buy a better rollcage, or chasis which is heavyer and make you go slower BUT gives your car ability to get less damage from collisions.

I ALWAYS used 1.5x or 2x damage in FO2. Why? Because that makes vehicles have POINT. I am more like the careful type driver and like to avoid collisions.
4 laps in 2x damage is literally a survival race for most of the ppl. I was able many times to do it with like 0 dmg, but there are Canyon drivers who like to kill everyone else, and even if they get lapped, they can be in the top 3, because everybody else dies or loses a wheel and falls behind.

I love when driving reckless is risky, you can do it for a while, but you have to keep your car together. This is where the skill goes. The proplem with the current built of wreckfest, you can SO EASILY do even a 20 round match without damage, i mean, the track is wide, there are no risky parts at all, no jumps or so...

I loved FO1 because even if you were unable to get wrecked, your suspension got damaged and the car became unstable. And it was easy to get to that part, you had to BRAKE before the jumps and I LOVED IT. When you had to land on even surface but still go as fast as possible... Dream..

So... I think the KEY here is primarily the damage, much more than the current. Well.... i'd rather say different than the current. I dont know how you standing with the damage atm but everybody knows that the current damage system's biggest problem that its like not counting your speed... Its like you get the same amount of damage at 20km/h and 200km/h.
ALSO, the TRACKS. I will post a thread about this under "legendary turns" or something like that, where i will list some maps/turns that i love the most and why i love them. You should put some jumps that are not only in straight areas, and you have to brake before them, jump sideways or so... that makes a lot of fun, and also requires experience and skill.
SETTINGS: We should be able go customize our cars but not only the way like 0% tuning, 50% tuning, 100% tuning. I mean, the gears, the rollcage and its quality/weight, the height of the suspension, and more that comes to our mind.

PLAYING FOR SURVIVE SHOULD WORTH IT. So the players who play like this, wrecking others, making a strong but slover vehicle would still stand a chance to be in the top players, just because they go trough the map. (Like you see many times if you set damage to 1.5x or 2x many players get canyons)
And the players like me, who using high-speed but paper vehicles (like Roadking) can dominate, but only if they play smart, safe, fast.
And of course there would be the typical style, the 'average". You are not that paper, but still have more speed than a canyon. (Like BulletGT-s.)

Also, there could be some areas, that just not worth for cutting with lighter cars. Like the car wash part on some of water canal tracks... Its faster to just go around when its not smashed, if you are not heavy enough to push thoose blue things away.


UI: About demo derbies. I think the realistic demo derby is just boring.... Because there is nothing else just go into each other. In order to make that fun, you should really put on some unrealistic things to the tracks. Like:
-Things like in the tech demo, hammers, spinners and so..
-Water, to push someone into(not like in fo2, this water would mean game over)
- Skycrapers is technically the same as the water idea, but instead of water, there is a fall...
- Repair, only if there is somewhere to push someone down, like down from a house or to the water, otherwise the game would be infinite, BUT when i played MTA DD there was really good fights for the repair.
- Many things could make the derby better, but i think the simple realistic derby will be always boring... This damage thing, from DD2 really makes sense but even in this way, derbies are just derbies.. We really need something that is actually DANGROUS in derby, like a fire pit, or water pit or something.. Also lots of jumps, different height tracks, so you can jump to other cars and so... To make it INTERESTING.
 

Keras

Member
Full time wrecker
I`m baffled that you are unsure on how to do this. In Flatout you made great tracks that invited chaos and destruction while at the same time being viable for (mostly) clean racing. In no way should WF be about empty tracks where you just drive the fastest while avoiding any contact with other players and your surroundings. Jumps and obstacles on the track greatly enhance the gameplay even for clean racing imo.

That track you mentioned for derby racing would be horrible for both clean and dirty racing imo. It`s a slightly extended derby at best. I think you should stop treating dirty and clean racing as something completely seperate. They are the same thing, it`s just the player deciding whether they want to intentionally ram other players off the track or not.
 

Donaldducklin

New Member
Weeked Smasher
At least to me normal racing with rewards for crashing does not sound that exciting. It just would not work, people who want to race would not play on those servers.

There needs to be some gamemodes where wrecking is the main idea, that is for sure. I just don't know if normal demolition derby will work either. There just isn't enought speed and fun in current demolition derby. I think you guys need to do something little bit crazy, step away from the realism a little. I don't have any amazing idea, but i feel it should not be super realistic like the racing gamemodes is, there needs to be explosions, low gravity modes or something(i am not super serious with those suggestions, just trying to say that it could be different compared to racing mode).
 

GRabbit

Member
This is a great chance youre giving us, thanks for that.

Other people already suggestested great ideas of how to deal with the problem in detail. I just want to say that Wreckfest is a game, where the crashes+great physic are the reason it is played.
So you should focus more on the crashing part rather than on clean racing.

Another way to see what maps and playstyle are the one that are most wanted is, to make an Map-EDITOR accessable for the community.
When you create maps which can be played in multiplayer, youll see which tracks are the most anticipated and which suck. this would save you alot of time, nevers and in the meantime create great maps.

In every great game, i.e. like Trackmania or WarCraft III you had editors, which kept the game alive over years and were basically no work for the development team.
But the things created there were as much fun as you can have as a player. Theres is nothing better than Community made maps. It is also a quite unique feature nowerdays and would surely be great for your image.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member

To be more specific, we’re unsure what to do with the demolition derby aspect of the game. We feel it's not getting the love that Wreckfest's racing is getting.



Just a little history about derby online. In Flatout 1 and 2, racing online was always more popular than derby. But derby did have a strong following. Me, I like it with Flatout 2 where I could do a 12 event tournament and mix up the racing with 2 -3 derbys and some curling.

Also if want to spice up the derby arenas, give us a derby on a frozen lake, like we had in Flatout 1. :)

Also would love to see some king the roof or hill derbys. They were popular with the guys that join my community mod host for Flatout 1 and 2.

Purplepack beta for Flatout 2. Part 2

I think it be tough to do a track that would be good for clean and dirty racing. Number 1 dirty racing track is a figure 8 track. I never race figure 8 track clean in Wreckfest. Bump to pass. :D

But on the other tracks, don't make them boring. Like flat and to easy to race. Give us tracks with elavation changes and some tracks with a bit of jump like gravel track and Sandpit under construction. Tracks that you can go fast but have some turns you have to brake for or you wreck. For the dirty part, have stuff on track like the loaders and buildings a player can knock other players into if they want to race rough.

I like points in a derby to help decide who won the derby. But in racing, not so kine on points if they can decide who wins the race. But be OK if did what UsF suggest if your points just get you extra $$. If you are 1st in a race, you should win the race.

UsF said:
For the scoring, I would love a very detailed scoring system, something that takes into account the amount you rotate an enemy by crashing into them for example, if you manage to roll them, flip them, spin them. Imagine getting 5 points for making a car rotate 90 degrees, 15 points for making it do a 180 and 40 points if you manage a full 360. Then you'd be able to get a certain amount of score from flipping people, making them roll over, gaining more and more points the more they roll. Bonus points for making someone land on their roof.

I'm all for - reverse grids in a tournament - "if you finish last in one race you're first in the next - may encourage people who are at the back to stick around and not quit as they'll be up at the front in the next race". Work well in GRID 1. But if you join the lobby after a tournament has started, you start in the back. In GRID 1, some players would cheat and leave and rejoin lobby quickly and get to start up front, since GRID 1 consider them a new player to the lobby. Yes player lose his points, but got to start up front and had good chance to win race again.


I'm also in favor of shortcuts like we have seen in Flatout 1 and 2, but the shortcuts need to be risky. Maybe you in second and need shortcut to catch the leader, but if don't hit shortcut just right, you catch a rock and now in 3rd place.

Like the shortcut in FO2 - Water Canal 1. If don't brake and turn at the right time, you hit building on the right!!




Team Bugbear said:
So, we’re currently hunting for ways to perk up the ”banger” part of the races. So far we've come up with a score modeling system where you gain points from collisions as well as being a fast driver, but we’re unsure if that would be enough. We’re wondering if we should broaden the “demolition racing” section of the game towards becoming a category of its own, which would, in effect, create two main branches of hitting the road: the other branch is aimed for clean racing and the other is for dirty driving.
Now the part I really, really want to talk about, dirty racing! :D

I started this thread back in Feb 2013:

Here my plea for GRID 1 type Fig 8 tracks to be included in new game

This is why GRID 1 derby racing is GREAT and will be miss in GRID 2!

GRID derby figure 8 racing is the must fun I have had online with dirty racing!!!! :D :D :D :D No clean racing allowed. Want to go backwards and wreck the leader of the race, go for IT!

A simple single figure 8 track ( one crossing ) is OK, but a figure 8 track with at least 2 crossing and jumps for major T-bone action, THAT WHERE THE FUN IS!!

In GRID 1 online, touring car racing was the most popular tournament hosted, second must hosted tournament was the figure 8 derby track. Many a night I would spend around 3 sweaty hours derby racing on just the 2 track variations of the figure 8 track. For 3 years, you could find a GRID 1 figure 8 host almost any time of the day until Codemasters unplug the online server for GRID 1 in 2011.

So us die hard GRID 1 derby fans waited for GRID 2 and a new derby figure 8 track. And then had our hopes dash in 2013 when Codemasters says there will be no derby figure 8 track in GRID 2 ( release in May 2013 ). But you say, there is derby figure 8 racing in GRID 2. Yes there is after Codemasters screwed up GRID 2 online so bad, it was dying off after 3 months, so Codies imported the GRID 1 derby figure 8 track into a free DLC in September 2013.

If Bugbear wants to sell more copies of Wreckfest, then please include a GRID 1 style figure 8 track. But I want more. :p I want to see at least 3 crossings, instead of just 2. I would like to see a 3 way crossing also and we need them jump ramps.





Purple44 said:
I just got a new idea for a GRID 1 style figure 8 track from ricky207 Double eight thread:

ricky207 said:
I think a a double cross like two figure eight tracks in one would be amazing! The figure eight track in my opinion is the best. Its fun to gas it and hold your breath that you make it as the car in front gets wiped out!
(XX) ??? ??? my best attempt at track design LOL
Purple44 said:
I like this idea for a figure 8 track and put in some jump ramps. :)

May need different color arrows on jump ramps and corresponding path out of middle of track to give players a hint to where they need to go when learning double figure 8 track.



I would added an extra loop to turn the double figure 8 track into a worthy replacement track for GRID 1 derby figure 8 track!! :D Also would connect the two ramps on purple section of track so derby wreckers can use ramps to go backwards on the track like we can in GRID 1 derby race online.

( excuse the second JUMP RAMPS that sneaked into my pic :( )


I hope Bugbear take note of this thread and I will add my last pic to my Here my plea for GRID 1 type Fig 8 tracks to be included in new game. thread.


Also would love to see caravan races ( boat races here at the Yakima Speedway 4th July derby ).
 
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