Week #17 Report

we had some awesome races with tabloid having a ping >300. was fun. no prob. we had sparky hosting mo's derby tournament with nobody <100 ms ping. still awesome. if you can't drive <80 ping, you can't drive with lower pings either. a good driver has no prob with a ping up to 200 and above 300 there's still real fun.

it's just impossible to drive with people all around the world with a ping limit of 80 and to be honest, driving with people all over the world is the part of multiplayer racing that's the most fun.

about the hacking problem: there will always be jerks wanting to hack but a host-sided blacklist AND a host-sided whitelist function together would solve that problem. exporting and importing white and blacklists would also help new hosts.
 

MamieNova

"Oh no he didn't!"
Mopower said:
I didn't realize it's easier to hack with client side
[probably oversimplified explanation] If you purely handle the race on a client side, the client simply sends its current coordinates every X ms to the server which relays to the other clients. So making a dummy program who simply sends a prerecorded flow of coordinates is how you make a bot. In theory, you can also increase your car's performance by sending coordinates that would seem to indicate you're going at 300mph. handling wouldn't even factor in it ... as long as there is no data check on the server's side.
Need for speed world was plagued by those damn hackers and I really hope Bugbear can come up with a cheat-proof gaming experience.

On the technical side, checking and validating everything the client sends to the server in real time before relaying it to the other players would increase the general latency if the serving computer can't compute fast enough. Extremely fast-paced games such as racing and FPS would be most impacted since you want to be able to send your reactions as soon as possible.
I am not sure however how powerful a computer should be to effectively validate the client's data without any performance loss. Modern hardware packs a generous amount of resources so maybe it's not so much of a dream.
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
WorldofBay said:
we had some awesome races with tabloid having a ping >300. was fun. no prob. we had sparky hosting mo's derby tournament with nobody <100 ms ping. still awesome. if you can't drive <80 ping, you can't drive with lower pings either. a good driver has no prob with a ping up to 200 and above 300 there's still real fun.

it's just impossible to drive with people all around the world with a ping limit of 80 and to be honest, driving with people all over the world is the part of multiplayer racing that's the most fun.

about the hacking problem: there will always be jerks wanting to hack but a host-sided blacklist AND a host-sided whitelist function together would solve that problem. exporting and importing white and blacklists would also help new hosts.
Idk, for me serverside sync did not work at all. My vehicle was pulled everywhere by invisible forces, it was damaged totally differently on serverside(i was unable to go straight with 4 completly ungamaged wheels), invisible trash on the ground, random floatings, random spinning on collisions SO.... it totally does not work in WF. I would rather see cheaters/laggers and simply kick them rather than having a completly un-enjoyable gameplay.
I did not play since like 6 months because of this.
 

Daystar

Gone in 60 seconds!
Iwasawa said:
Mopower said:
Iwasawa said:
Pinglimit 80. Problem solved.
That means that most of us wouldn't even be able to play with people in our own country assuming there's a host to player ratio of 1:10.... Don't like that idea at all! 120 ping is fine... Hell 150 isn't bad even, but once you get up into the 180s seems to have a negative impact.

Iwasawa said:
If someone gets too laggy, it disables the collisions for him until he gets back to normal.
Sooo, let's just throw immersion out the window because a guy has crappy internet... Sounds like a great plan in a derby... "QUICK, TURN ON EVERY STREAMING SYSTEM IN THE HOUSE UNTIL THERE'S 2 CARS LEFT!!"

Not a good plan there bud... But clientside.... hmmm Wait a minute, THAT ALREADY WORKS!
For me, anything above 80 ping is unplayable. There is just too much latency to play it correctly, even if its clientside. So yeah, you wouldnt be able to play on highping servers but why would you want?... And someone who does that in derby.... well just ban him.
The biggest prob with clientside is the hacking. All handlinghacks would work...
But still, for me its horrible to drive with serverside physics... Totally different things happen.
OMG if I can ping past 150 and make some 1st place wins.. than most others should as well.





Hopefully WF gets some more internet optimizing into our new build. but i fear not with the send receive packets of data, with our better build coming.
And my two down falls, is not so great gfx card, and crappy internet.. but I get by somehow so far hehe
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Iwasawa said:
WorldofBay said:
we had some awesome races with tabloid having a ping >300. was fun. no prob. we had sparky hosting mo's derby tournament with nobody <100 ms ping. still awesome. if you can't drive <80 ping, you can't drive with lower pings either. a good driver has no prob with a ping up to 200 and above 300 there's still real fun.

it's just impossible to drive with people all around the world with a ping limit of 80 and to be honest, driving with people all over the world is the part of multiplayer racing that's the most fun.

about the hacking problem: there will always be jerks wanting to hack but a host-sided blacklist AND a host-sided whitelist function together would solve that problem. exporting and importing white and blacklists would also help new hosts.
Idk, for me serverside sync did not work at all. My vehicle was pulled everywhere by invisible forces, it was damaged totally differently on serverside(i was unable to go straight with 4 completly ungamaged wheels), invisible trash on the ground, random floatings, random spinning on collisions SO.... it totally does not work in WF. I would rather see cheaters/laggers and simply kick them rather than having a completly un-enjoyable gameplay.
I did not play since like 6 months because of this.
Iwasawa, you may want to give Wreckfest online another try. When Build #6 first got release back in Oct, we were just learning how to host WF. We saw a lot of major lag spikes going on back then, especially at start of race. Bugbear has patch the code some and most hosts know how many players there server can handle with their connection now. I can host up to 16.
 

rwb

Member
Weeked Smasher
On netcode: I've found that latency effects ffb, which can be very disconcerting. I might just be a wimp, but I have found the physical effects of the lag translated through ffb to be unacceptable with hosts even <100 ping. If what my car is doing is being processed on the server side and fed back to a wheel with significant latency, that makes things much more difficult. But, I do appreciate the smooth interactions with other cars, which currently is excellent and is what allows such close racing.
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
Purple44 said:
Iwasawa said:
WorldofBay said:
we had some awesome races with tabloid having a ping >300. was fun. no prob. we had sparky hosting mo's derby tournament with nobody <100 ms ping. still awesome. if you can't drive <80 ping, you can't drive with lower pings either. a good driver has no prob with a ping up to 200 and above 300 there's still real fun.

it's just impossible to drive with people all around the world with a ping limit of 80 and to be honest, driving with people all over the world is the part of multiplayer racing that's the most fun.

about the hacking problem: there will always be jerks wanting to hack but a host-sided blacklist AND a host-sided whitelist function together would solve that problem. exporting and importing white and blacklists would also help new hosts.
Idk, for me serverside sync did not work at all. My vehicle was pulled everywhere by invisible forces, it was damaged totally differently on serverside(i was unable to go straight with 4 completly ungamaged wheels), invisible trash on the ground, random floatings, random spinning on collisions SO.... it totally does not work in WF. I would rather see cheaters/laggers and simply kick them rather than having a completly un-enjoyable gameplay.
I did not play since like 6 months because of this.
Iwasawa, you may want to give Wreckfest online another try. When Build #6 first got release back in Oct, we were just learning how to host WF. We saw a lot of major lag spikes going on back then, especially at start of race. Bugbear has patch the code some and most hosts know how many players there server can handle with their connection now. I can host up to 16.
Im gonna try it when the next update comes out. Hope it will work, i would prefer a normally working serverside too but for me it never worked correctly.
 
M

Mopower

Guest
Iwasawa said:
WorldofBay said:
we had some awesome races with tabloid having a ping >300. was fun. no prob. we had sparky hosting mo's derby tournament with nobody <100 ms ping. still awesome. if you can't drive <80 ping, you can't drive with lower pings either. a good driver has no prob with a ping up to 200 and above 300 there's still real fun.

it's just impossible to drive with people all around the world with a ping limit of 80 and to be honest, driving with people all over the world is the part of multiplayer racing that's the most fun.

about the hacking problem: there will always be jerks wanting to hack but a host-sided blacklist AND a host-sided whitelist function together would solve that problem. exporting and importing white and blacklists would also help new hosts.
Idk, for me serverside sync did not work at all. My vehicle was pulled everywhere by invisible forces, it was damaged totally differently on serverside(i was unable to go straight with 4 completly ungamaged wheels), invisible trash on the ground, random floatings, random spinning on collisions SO.... it totally does not work in WF. I would rather see cheaters/laggers and simply kick them rather than having a completly un-enjoyable gameplay.
I did not play since like 6 months because of this.
You either have terrible internet or you really struggle with the game...
 

Serenya

Member
Weeked Smasher
Mopower said:
Iwasawa said:
WorldofBay said:
we had some awesome races with tabloid having a ping >300. was fun. no prob. we had sparky hosting mo's derby tournament with nobody <100 ms ping. still awesome. if you can't drive <80 ping, you can't drive with lower pings either. a good driver has no prob with a ping up to 200 and above 300 there's still real fun.

it's just impossible to drive with people all around the world with a ping limit of 80 and to be honest, driving with people all over the world is the part of multiplayer racing that's the most fun.

about the hacking problem: there will always be jerks wanting to hack but a host-sided blacklist AND a host-sided whitelist function together would solve that problem. exporting and importing white and blacklists would also help new hosts.
Idk, for me serverside sync did not work at all. My vehicle was pulled everywhere by invisible forces, it was damaged totally differently on serverside(i was unable to go straight with 4 completly ungamaged wheels), invisible trash on the ground, random floatings, random spinning on collisions SO.... it totally does not work in WF. I would rather see cheaters/laggers and simply kick them rather than having a completly un-enjoyable gameplay.
I did not play since like 6 months because of this.
You either have terrible internet or you really struggle with the game...
Terrible internet, because I tried the game with a friend from the opposite side of the planet and got the described experience with ~8000 ping. That only happens to players who joined the server, host only sees warping players but his/her car handles normally. Personally the lag starts to annoy me (and cause serious trouble with handling) when the ping goes above 100, but others might have no problem on higher pings. I don't mind seeing warping cars either, but when my game starts to fastforward and slo-mo, then it's impossible play anymore.
 

MamieNova

"Oh no he didn't!"
To my experience, you can't rely too much on the ping to tell the story. Since there are a lot of servers in Europe and I'm in Canada, I often play with a ping around 130 and everything seems to produce the expected results.

However, I get the occasional lag (feeling a collision a second after you though you avoided the opponent, that kind of stuff) and immediately check my ping which is still rocking its usual 120 to 150.
It's the other guy who's lagging, that's all.

On some servers, you can get what feels like a FPS drop (I suspect the server to be directly responsible for that one)
 
M

Mopower

Guest
Lol, what do you expect at 8k ping? You shouldn't even be allowed to play online!
 

Iwasawa

Member
Weeked Smasher
Mopower said:
Iwasawa said:
WorldofBay said:
we had some awesome races with tabloid having a ping >300. was fun. no prob. we had sparky hosting mo's derby tournament with nobody <100 ms ping. still awesome. if you can't drive <80 ping, you can't drive with lower pings either. a good driver has no prob with a ping up to 200 and above 300 there's still real fun.

it's just impossible to drive with people all around the world with a ping limit of 80 and to be honest, driving with people all over the world is the part of multiplayer racing that's the most fun.

about the hacking problem: there will always be jerks wanting to hack but a host-sided blacklist AND a host-sided whitelist function together would solve that problem. exporting and importing white and blacklists would also help new hosts.
Idk, for me serverside sync did not work at all. My vehicle was pulled everywhere by invisible forces, it was damaged totally differently on serverside(i was unable to go straight with 4 completly ungamaged wheels), invisible trash on the ground, random floatings, random spinning on collisions SO.... it totally does not work in WF. I would rather see cheaters/laggers and simply kick them rather than having a completly un-enjoyable gameplay.
I did not play since like 6 months because of this.
You either have terrible internet or you really struggle with the game...
I have 120mb/s internet, and im not struggling with the game.
 

Serenya

Member
Weeked Smasher
Mopower said:
Lol, what do you expect at 8k ping? You shouldn't even be allowed to play online!
I just gave an example what I experienced with a ping that high, normally I search servers with the ping below 100 of course. :D

But seriously, that kind of behaviour should be only seen on the other side of the cable, not my end. I mean, it's ok if my car warps and lags on the other players' monitors, and their cars do the same on my monitor. That's just normal when playing online with players far away from each other or just poor internet connection. But when my car does that on my own monitor, that is just ridiculous and unplayable. I think this is just the nature of p2p, and it shouldn't exist with dedicated servers.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
One sign that your PING is to high is if your car goes half way into the car you just rammed! But your high PING may not always be on your end.

We saw this last Saturday in the derby tournament when Sparky was hosting and also streaming with twitch TV with only 13 players. Are PINGs were jumping to the the high 200, 300 range. When Sparky stop streaming, PINGs went back to normal 50-150 PINGs for US players.

I also had one night when I was hosting, things were going fine in the team deathmatches and then the next one, things got laggy and we get back to the lobby and everybody PINGS are jumping around, spiking to like 600 PINGs!! :eek: Players started leaving and I had to close my host. :(
 
J

Jelco

Guest
Alright yesterday i was racing in a server were you could take massive amounts of damage like full retard but took very little internal damage. I never smashed into so many people without hurting myself. Tell me how that can be without any options for those kind of things?
The server was not laggy. I have seen this before a couple of times from the 300 hours i played already.
 
J

Jelco

Guest
Alright yesterday i was racing in a server were you could take massive amounts of damage like full retard but took very little internal damage. I never smashed into so many people without hurting myself. Tell me how that can be without any options for those kind of things?
The server was not laggy. I have seen this before a couple of times from the 300 hours i played already.
 
M

Mopower

Guest
Needles Kane said:
Host using trainer which affects damage maybe?
Nope I've seen it too and with a host that hosts nightly. I know he doesn't chest. But we'd always notice and he would generally restart the lobby which fixed it
 
J

Jelco

Guest
Mopower said:
Needles Kane said:
Host using trainer which affects damage maybe?
Nope I've seen it too and with a host that hosts nightly. I know he doesn't chest. But we'd always notice and he would generally restart the lobby which fixed it
Ghuh :p maybe it's some sort of bug. Not a bad one tho because more carnage could be made. It's amazing the kind of deformed vehicles i ended up with and still going strong.
The only downside i find is that it's way to hard to get takedowns so that is no fun :p
 

Zebulon55

ZeBBy
Master Blaster
Seen this before too. Some cars went the full ten minute derby, but there were enough wrecks to determine a winner. The aerial wrecks at the big arena were spectacular. Thought low damage should be a option, so we can choose to occasionally play like that.

Sent from my XT1055 using Tapatalk
 
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