Week #46 Report

Jelco said:
Oke but if the AI needs a mistake mechanism you must have had another one in build 3-4 because i remember that was pretty good
We had one, but it was before the new engine. And it was really badly made (I don't even dare to explain what it did. Trust me, it was bad). :) So we need to a) make a mistake mechanism to the new engine and b) make it better than it was.
 

FalconXY

Member
I would love to see the derby points system mode for race tracks implemented in the next build please.
Then it would be much more fun for me. :)
Thank you. ;D
 

Conte Zero

Crash hard, then crash harder.
Full time wrecker
Tero said:
Jelco said:
Oke but if the AI needs a mistake mechanism you must have had another one in build 3-4 because i remember that was pretty good
We had one, but it was before the new engine. And it was really badly made (I don't even dare to explain what it did. Trust me, it was bad). :) So we need to a) make a mistake mechanism to the new engine and b) make it better than it was.
I think I have seen several crashes and mistakes by the AI, maybe it was in previous builds?
Anyway, for sure it needs your consideration and effort: nothing makes it real like seeing disasters by the opponents during a race.
 

HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
They still do mistakes, not as much or often, but it happens, but i rather have a close race than AI's that mess up from left to right.

However, must say ur tracks has to little of jumps, want to see more jumps in the game like FO1 had.


<bad word censored by your friendly neighborhood Jori>
 
J

Jelco

Guest
But i don't think that a mistake mechanism will make the ai spin around like it should when pitting
 

Mohasz

Member
Weeked Smasher
Full time wrecker
Jori Virtanen said:
Mohasz said:
do we really need another sandpit track? At least that's what I gather from those pics.
That depends. If we have, say, 20 tracks when the product is ready, then yes, I'd say we can afford one more sandpit track. But the main purpose for this was to scout locations so we can hone the existing tracks to be better than what they already are.
In that case, fine, but a little variety would be nice. We've yet to see a proper forest, canal and maybe, just maybe winter track, while we already have 2 sandpits. I know, I know...patience.
 

Rabbit80

Member
The AI needs to have some lag before it reacts to an external event (eg PIT, being crashed into, hitting a bump or obstacle) so that their cars may already be out of control before they can correct it. Also, rather than a "mistake" mechanism where they do entirely the wrong thing, their reactions need to simply be made more vague - hard to explain - but it is rare that a real person would make a 100% correct reaction - they would be more likely to react in the correct way (Such as steering in the correct direction, accelerating or braking), but over or under steer, mash the brakes or throttle instead of hitting the brakes exactly 48% etc.. Then they would have the lag again in correcting their mistake.
 

Conte Zero

Crash hard, then crash harder.
Full time wrecker
Jelco said:
But i don't think that a mistake mechanism will make the ai spin around like it should when pitting
yeah, there a was a build (I can't remember, #3, or 4?) where a little hit against any opponent used to result in spins, crashes and mayhem.

That was just perfect in my opinion.
 
Rabbit80 said:
The AI needs to have some lag before it reacts to an external event (eg PIT, being crashed into, hitting a bump or obstacle) so that their cars may already be out of control before they can correct it. Also, rather than a "mistake" mechanism where they do entirely the wrong thing, their reactions need to simply be made more vague - hard to explain - but it is rare that a real person would make a 100% correct reaction - they would be more likely to react in the correct way (Such as steering in the correct direction, accelerating or braking), but over or under steer, mash the brakes or throttle instead of hitting the brakes exactly 48% etc.. Then they would have the lag again in correcting their mistake.
^This is exactly what we are thinking about.
 

Needles Kane

Member
Weeked Smasher
Tero said:
^This is exactly what we are thinking about.
I'm happy about this.

Tero said:
We had one, but it was before the new engine. And it was really badly made (I don't even dare to explain what it did. Trust me, it was bad). :) So we need to a) make a mistake mechanism to the new engine and b) make it better than it was.
I remeber that. I don't know what it did but for me it looked like AI cars just straighten front wheels and put the pedal to the metal when nudge on the rear end. Usually ends that opponent just drove out of the track, in to the woods.
 

Conte Zero

Crash hard, then crash harder.
Full time wrecker
Rabbit80 said:
The AI needs to have some lag before it reacts to an external event (eg PIT, being crashed into, hitting a bump or obstacle) so that their cars may already be out of control before they can correct it. Also, rather than a "mistake" mechanism where they do entirely the wrong thing, their reactions need to simply be made more vague - hard to explain - but it is rare that a real person would make a 100% correct reaction - they would be more likely to react in the correct way (Such as steering in the correct direction, accelerating or braking), but over or under steer, mash the brakes or throttle instead of hitting the brakes exactly 48% etc.. Then they would have the lag again in correcting their mistake.
brilliant. that lag would simulate human error and human reaction delay.
 

Rabbit80

Member
Tero said:
Rabbit80 said:
The AI needs to have some lag before it reacts to an external event (eg PIT, being crashed into, hitting a bump or obstacle) so that their cars may already be out of control before they can correct it. Also, rather than a "mistake" mechanism where they do entirely the wrong thing, their reactions need to simply be made more vague - hard to explain - but it is rare that a real person would make a 100% correct reaction - they would be more likely to react in the correct way (Such as steering in the correct direction, accelerating or braking), but over or under steer, mash the brakes or throttle instead of hitting the brakes exactly 48% etc.. Then they would have the lag again in correcting their mistake.
^This is exactly what we are thinking about.
I was going to post this a couple of days ago, but it took some thinking about and is hard to describe in a way that could possibly be implemented.
 

UsF

Member
Team Bugbear Member
Have you considered or is there a way to give trackside objects their weight back? In the early tech demo, bumping into a tire wall was so awesome, because even after you pushed it over, anything felt like it had weight. Barrels were obstacles and great fun to tackle or bump someone into.

I know this is probably not for multiplayer, but in singleplayer having the option for that would be interesting. The change introduced, where tire walls had weight as you first collided with them was a great addition for multiplayer, as it allowed to set up temporary obstacles, but in singleplayer one could go all out with it.

Maybe a setting or cheat code, if it is possible. :)

And yes the AI is extremely good. You can basically pit maneuver one and then push it along diagonally, while it won't spin out. Shows you what skilled driving could happen. :D

An idea for a track would be to have the road actually be bumpy and not flat (as in short small bumps). Imagine the ocasional small water ditches, like small pits of water, but they are actually lower and you sink half a tire length while driving through them. Then there would be bumps that raise you half a tire length higher. Combined, this could make for a messy road, but maybe it is fun to drive, as you'd actually have to pay attention to the short term contact you make on the road, not just turns and obstacles as it is right now.
 

Techno-Grub

New Member
Oooh, so the tire physics are in special care? And a lot of emphasis on the importance of the tires. Interesting. I can only wonder what it is that you're trying to do with them.

I have to say though, the tires are not everything. Cars can even drive.. tirelessly. :D
 

Techno-Grub

New Member
Oh well. As long as the new&awesome tire physics will allow for even more violent consequences, crashes, collisions, mid-air flights and spinning, maybe even improved handling(?), then I'm fine with them. 8)
 

Wolverine1

New Member
Thanks for the update. These are more appreciated than you probably realize.

People just like to know what is happening when they are invested in an early access.
 

HYLK

Member
Full time wrecker
Not really worried bout the game.
What worries me, that u timetravel to much for the AI, and that it will eat ur days like butter in a black hole. We all know that AI's are time consuming, and a pain in the ass perfecting.
However, my question would be if it isnt more suitable to have 23 different AI drivers that have different weaknesses, and corporate these into them. Rather than make them all humanized.
 

Daystar

Gone in 60 seconds!
HYLK said:
Not really worried bout the game.
What worries me, that u timetravel to much for the AI, and that it will eat ur days like butter in a black hole. We all know that AI's are time consuming, and a pain in the ass perfecting.
However, my question would be if it isnt more suitable to have 23 different AI drivers that have different weaknesses, and corporate these into them. Rather than make them all humanized.
Who said anything about the AI being humanized? AI is what it is... Artificial Intelligence. And it for sure needs to be tweaked a bit.

On a side note, I would like to see some names put to these AI guys... not like the numbers they have now.
 

Purple44

Well-Known Member
Team Bugbear Member
Tero said:
Rabbit80 said:
The AI needs to have some lag before it reacts to an external event (eg PIT, being crashed into, hitting a bump or obstacle) so that their cars may already be out of control before they can correct it. Also, rather than a "mistake" mechanism where they do entirely the wrong thing, their reactions need to simply be made more vague - hard to explain - but it is rare that a real person would make a 100% correct reaction - they would be more likely to react in the correct way (Such as steering in the correct direction, accelerating or braking), but over or under steer, mash the brakes or throttle instead of hitting the brakes exactly 48% etc.. Then they would have the lag again in correcting their mistake.
^This is exactly what we are thinking about.
The way the AI are now, look like WF is ready for hardcore mode AI. ;)

Tero said:
The reason why AI so hard to pit etc. is that currently the AI handles the car perfectly. Whatever you do, they can do really fast adjustements to their steering, throttle etc. to counter the effects of you bumping them so they pretty much never spin out.
 
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